Are you working on your business not in it? Well done! If not, maybe its time to make it better before bigger?

Are you working on your business or in it? One will lead to great satisfaction and success. The other? Well, time to get better before bigger?

There’s no growing without pains! We’re about to learn about the processes of getting better before bigger!

 

After listening to or reading this episode you’ll definitely have more of an idea of growing your business in a sustainable way!

 

We’re making conversations about better before bigger count, with Nick Cramp – Episode 91!

 

Nick is here to ask us us the questions we all need to know the answers to! Including, are you working on your business or in it?

 

 

Are you working on your business not in it? Nick Cramp will bring insight on that question

Big take-away quote from this conversation about getting better before bigger and working on your business not in it with Nick Cramp:

“I think business owners can learn a lot from sport and look at that analogy.

If you want to play at the top level, you’ve got to also give yourself periods to recover, regroup, rethink and all those lovely re prefixes that are really important.”

Nick Cramp, Making Conversations Count – (July 2022)

.(Hard of hearing? Transcript here).

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Nick Cramp is a business coach and consultant who helps entrepreneurs achieve sustainable success.

 

He specialises in working with business owners who are ready to take their businesses to the next level, but may not know how to do so in a sustainable way.

 

Nick’s approach is all about helping his clients get better before they get bigger.

 

By working on their businesses not in them, Nick’s clients are able to truly scale their businesses in a way that is both healthy and profitable.

 

 If you’re ready to take your business to the next level, but aren’t sure how to do so in a sustainable way, then working with Nick Cramp is a great option for you.

 

Nick’s focus on helping his clients get better before they get bigger will help you build a strong foundation for long-term success.

Scroll down to continue reading this episode in which Nick Cramp shares how you can get working on your business not in it!

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Thinking man Nick Cramp - illustration for his episode about working on your business not in it

What is working on your business not in it?

 

When you work on your business, you’re not working in it. This means that you’re getting better so you can be bigger and truly scale your business in a sustainable way.

 

Working on your business not in it is a mindset.

 

It’s working on the business, not just in the business.

 

When you’re working in your business, you’re bogged down with the day-to-day tasks that keep it running. You’re putting out fires and dealing with emergencies as they come up. You’re working in your business, but you’re not working on your business.

 

Working on your business means taking a step back from the day-to-day to work and instead focusing on long-term projects that will help you scale.

 

It means delegating and systemising the tasks that can be done by someone else so you can focus on high-level strategies. It means making decisions that will have  a positive impact on your business in the long run, even if they’re difficult in the short term.

 

In short, working on your business not in it is about making decisions that will help you grow sustainably.

 

So, how can you tell if you’re working on your business or working in it?

 

Here are a few signs:

 

  • You’re always putting out fires instead of working on long-term projects.
  • You’re working more than 40 hours a week and you can’t see a way to delegate or systemise anything.
  • You don’t have time for self-care or to spend with loved ones because you’re too busy working.
  • Your business isn’t growing, or it’s growing slowly.
  • If you’re working on your business, not in it, you’ll see sustainable growth over time.
  • You won’t be working yourself to the bone, and you’ll have systems and processes in place to help you scale.

So, ask yourself: are you working on your business or working in it?

 

If you’re working in it, what can you do to start working on it?

 

It may be difficult at first, but making the switch will pay off in the long run. Your business will thank you for it!

John Hamm businessman doing business gif

In the episode Wendy Harris and Nick Cramp get into a discussion about the importance of using good rules and habits.

 

Disciplines as some like to call it.

 

As explained, one of Wendy’s rules is no phones in the evening.

 

Some other rules and habits might be ;

 

  • working a certain number of hours on your business each week
  • having regular check-ins with your accountability partner
  • reading or listening to educational content for 30 minutes each day
  • writing out your goals and review them regularly
  • taking time out for yourself each week to reenergize and refocus.

 

The key is to find what works for you and stick to it.

 

If you can do that, you’ll be well on your way to working on your business not in it!

(Want to read the transcript right now? You can do so here.

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Relevant quote from episode – click here for full transcript

Wendy Harris

At 6 o’clock at night, if the dinner isn’t on and cooking for the family, and it should be, the phone gets put upside down on charge on the side in the kitchen and I don’t look at it again then generally until I go and make a cup of tea, about 8 o’clock or get a drink and I’ll look at it once more before bed. So I actually spend my evening without my phone.

 

Nick

It’s so important, though, isn’t it, to establish those rules with yourself almost, isn’t it? Those kind of good habits? Because the challenge for leaders now is they can work 24/7 if they want to. There’s always an email that needs responding to, there’s always an idea that needs progressing, but the quality just goes down. You can’t maintain the quality if you’re doing that many hours. And I think the quality is the essential ingredient that you can’t replicate. So I think the first time leaders or experienced leaders makes no difference. I think that leading on your own terms, in your own way, is so important, but finding your own kind of way of working is really essential. And like you, if you can find that rhythm that works with family and the work and your personal needs, it’s a really important discovery, isn’t it?

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When did Andy Murray actually win Wimbledon

Nick’s main point in this episode is the ‘compound growth’ effect.

 

You can’t get bigger before you get better.

 

That’s not sustainable.

 

He uses Andy Murray’s Wimbledon win as an example.

 

Andy Murray won Wimbledon in 2013.

But he didn’t just win at that one tournament, on that day.

 

He had to put in years of hard work to get to that point.

 

It’s not like he just showed up on the day of the tournament and won.

 

Not only did he have to beat some of the best tennis players in the world.

 

He also had to get his mindset right for the match.

 

And he had to get his mindset right for the training for the match.

 

The same is true for businesses.

 

You can’t scale a business if you’re not working on it.

 

You have to be constantly improving your product or service.

 

Otherwise, you’ll never be able to sustain growth.

 

So, if you’re working on your business, not in it, and you’re constantly trying to get better, then you’ll be in a much better position to scale .

 

Of course, there’s no one answer to the question of how often you should be working on your business.

 

But if you’re not working on it at all, then you’re not going to be able to improve and scale.

 

You have to find a balance that works for you.

 

And you have to be constantly asking yourself if you’re working on your business, not just in it.

 

Otherwise, you’ll never be able to truly scale your business sustainably.

Schitts Creek self-sabotage gif

Upgrading rather than outgrowing

 

The difference between upgrading and outgrowing a business is complex but important to understand.

 

Most businesses start small, with just a few employees or even just the founder working alone.

 

As the business grows, it will inevitably reach a point where it needs to upgrade to continue expanding. This might mean hiring new staff, moving to new premises or investing in new equipment.

 

However, there’s a danger of confusing upgrading with outgrowing.

 

Just because your business has reached a certain size doesn’t mean it has to keep growing indefinitely.

 

There comes a point where further growth is no longer possible or desirable – and that’s when you need to focus on upgrading.

 

Upgrading means making improvements and changes so that your business can continue to thrive, even if it doesn’t get any bigger.

 

It might mean introducing new systems and processes or improving the quality of your products or services.

 

Outgrowing, on the other hand, is simply expanding for the sake of it.

 

It’s often driven by ego – the desire to be the biggest and best in your industry.

 

But this kind of growth is often unsustainable and can lead to problems down the line.

 

So before you start chasing growth, ask yourself: are you working on your business or in it?

 

If you want to upgrade rather than outgrow your business, focus on making improvements that will help you thrive, even if you don’t get any bigger.

 

(Relevant quote from episode. Read the full transcript here).

“It’s what I classify as the success trap, because they’ve got there because their business is successful and they’re overwhelmed by the success. And what they’ve got in place in terms of people, processes and structure, were great when they were smaller, but they’ve outgrown them. But they haven’t upgraded them. They’d be making do with something which is no longer fit for purpose, but because they’re busy growing all the time, they haven’t got the time to actually address them. They kind of know deep down that this is not right, but, hey, the phones ringing and there’s someone else that loves me, there’s another client, there’s more money.”

You’ll learn….

This episode of “Making Conversations Count”, in which Nick Cramp shares his secrets for working on your business not in it:

  • What Nick does
  • Working on your business not in it
  • Good rules and habits
  • Nick’s conversation that counted

Wendy’s takeaway

“The conversation emphasises the importance of working on your business rather than in it – that is, making improvements so that your business can continue to thrive, even if it doesn’t get any bigger. Nick uses the example of Wimbledon winner Andy Murray to illustrate this point, highlighting the years of hard work and dedication that go into achieving success.

 

I could actually use my own analogy of starting this podcast two years ago.

 

I had maybe 20 listeners per week.

 

But those early episodes allowed me practice my craft, and attract new listeners I can now enjoy sharing conversations with.

 

And thousands of people around the world are reguarly listening to my British Podcast Awards nominated show.

 

I wouldn’t be here if I hadn’t done the hard work back then!”

 

Nick’s Links

Please do let us know your take-aways from this episode by leaving a comment at https;//makingconversations.studio/Review-Nick-Cramp

New to this site? Learn more about Making Conversations Count podcast:

“Making Conversations Count” is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.

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Spoiler alert: want to read the conversation that counted in this episode about working on your business not in it with Nick Cramp?

You like to ruin the plot twist huh? OK, not judging. Here you are.

Wendy Harris

Everybody that comes on the show, I always say to them, have a think about one conversation that created a turning point for you, your pivotal moment.

 

Nick

Yeah.

 

Wendy Harris

Are you ready to share that with me now?

 

Nick

I am with some embarrassment, but I will share!

 

Nick

Ooh! Because I don’t get to know this prerecord, so I’m hearing this live. Oh, right. I’m bracing myself.

 

Nick

About six years ago, I spent a couple of years working for a US based coaching company called EMyth. So I went and trained as an EMyth business coach. And EMyth used to provide clients with the coaches and we had a cohort of coaches that joined the same time as me and we had a coaching supervisor. So we were kind of in a semi competitive environment with each other because we were looking at who could generate the most work, all of those growth metrics. And I was very hooked. I like games, I like competing, and I was very hooked on volume and quantity. And then one day I got a call from the coaching supervisor who said, “Nick, I don’t know how to break this to you, but you’ve been sacked by one of your clients and they’ve gone to a different coach.” And I was like, what? Only spoke to him two days ago. And it transpires that he didn’t feel I was paying attention, he didn’t feel I was present enough in the relationship. And I realised that what I was doing at that stage. I had 18 clients on my books and I just had too many coaching calls, too many coaching conversations, and I was just dialling it in, I was just going through the motions. I wasn’t present in the relationship because I put the volume and the quantity ahead of the quality, I’d sacrificed the quality of the work I did for first place on the scoreboard for that kind of vanity metric. And it made me realise that I have got one chance, one point with that relationship and I’ve got to be all in when I’m speaking with that person. I’ve got to turn up as a professional, I’ve got to prepare for my sessions, I’ve got to deliver with intensity and I’ve got to follow up, which sounds really basic, but once we get busy, it’s often those basics that go out the window.

 

Wendy Harris

Yes, I understand.

 

Nick

And it took me that moment where I’d been sacked without realising, to suddenly have that wake up call that, “Hang on a minute, that’s not who I am as a coach. That’s not who I want to be”. I then pivoted into creating my own coaching programme, which was very much focused on this target segment of clients. So rather than trying to offer average quality to a lot of people, I want to offer really high quality to the right segment of people. And that was my kind of pivot from that moment,

 

Wendy Harris

Which ties in really nicely with that better before bigger, doesn’t it?

 

Nick

And that was, I think, the first germ of that, where the books are germ before you kind of write it. But I think that was kind of two years before I actually started putting stuff on paper. But it was probably the moment when I realised that doing it like that just wasn’t going to cut it for me. I need something deeper. I need a deeper relationship with fewer people, rather than a shallow relationship with lots of people.

 

Wendy Harris

I think this is something where we can agree, actually, Nick, it’s that accountability to our clients. My clients tend to… they’ve been to my wedding, we go for drinks, they become lifelong friends. They’re not necessarily people that know my family, but they know of my family and I can talk and they can tell me about theirs as well. So it sort of becomes not just on the business surface of things that you’re involved. I realised it personally when I did the mental health first aid of training years ago, that I thought, gosh, I’m taking on such a responsibility because I’m intrinsically linked to their business growth through the work that I do. And I realise that business is personal. I don’t care what anybody says, you’re working hard. It’s effectively your money, even though the accountants will say it’s in a limited company and it’s not yours. I’m sorry, but it is, because if you didn’t work for it, you wouldn’t have it.

 

Nick

Quite agree.

 

Wendy Harris

You don’t want to give it away unless you feel like you’re getting something back for it. So going on the mental health training was a way for me to be able to help protect me, but do a better job of looking after my clients as well and their expectations and this sort of thing. And it opened up a much deeper level of relationship because my awareness translated to their awareness.

 

Nick

It’s a two way relationship, isn’t it? I get from my clients energy and inspiration and hopefully they hold me accountable in the same way I’m holding them accountable. And it’s reciprocation, which makes both parties better, because we’re both showing up to the relationship in a more intentional way. They’re asking more of me and I’m asking better questions of them. And we’re kind of like two people playing tennis together. You’re raising the game simultaneously, you both end up playing at a higher level.

 

Wendy Harris

It’s when you get to that point where you almost settle. You’ve settled for what you’ve got, that you go, well, hang on a minute. Is this actually where you want to be before you go into the next season?

 

Nick

 

And it’s what I call the okay syndrome, where things aren’t broken in a business, they’re just okay, but they’re not really inspiring anybody, they’re just at that level where they’re getting by and it’s trying to, with ourselves included, do the work to get to that next level, whatever that looks like.

 

Wendy Harris

Yeah. And I think going back to what you were saying about the last two years, I know, certainly I’ve been on a massive transformational journey, but I felt that that was the only thing I could do. It was that or quit. And I think there’s a lot of people out there that will go, do you know what? I feel the same. I could just quit. But why throw it all away? It’s the way it is. I accept that. That’s how it’s always been.

 

Nick

And it’s sad because I think that people do get lost in their own businesses. People do kind of fail because they don’t seek support from others. And I think there is so much available to help people in whatever areas they need it now. It’s a brilliant time to run a business.

 

Wendy Harris

Yes. It’s about recognising that there is something that needs to be better, and hence the show “Making Conversations Count”. You don’t know where the conversation is going to lead and it’s who you have those conversations with that can seriously be the change that you need.

 

Nick

Yeah. And they say that you are influenced by the I can’t remember the number. Is it the five or six people you spend most time with?

 

Wendy Harris

Yes.

 

Nick

And it’s really important, isn’t it, who we choose to spend time with? Like most people, I suppose. During the first six months of the first lockdown, I spent loads of time in network groups online and realised I was in totally the wrong room because I was getting nothing from the room. I was being de energised rather than ever. But also lots of negative people, lots of dumbasses that were just bringing me down. It was just kind of like and I’d end up coming off called exhausted. And I think all I’ve done is listen to people and I feel tired. And it’s really important having it with conversations that we consciously choose who we spend time with.

 

Wendy Harris

Well, Nick, I think there’s been some real value. Thank you so much for sharing what you do and how you help people. And of course, the better before bigger concept, and working on your business not in it. I think we can all bear that in mind on a daily basis. So if anyone wants to carry on the conversation with you, where’s the best place for them to find you hanging out?

 

Nick

So there are two places where it’s easiest to contact me. One is on my website, which is www.nickcramp.com. And the other is to find me on LinkedIn. And I’m always happy for a connection and a conversation on LinkedIn. That’ll be great.

 

Wendy Harris

Yeah, just mention the show or just say, oh, I heard you talking to Wendy. And Nick’ll know where you’ve come from.

 

Nick

That would be great.

 

Wendy Harris

It’s been fantastic to talk to you, Nick. Thank you so much.

 

Nick

Likewise, Wendy. Thank you for your time. It’s been a pleasure to be your guest.

 

Wendy Harris

Thank you.

 

 

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Click this box to read the full Episode Transcript - Conversation around how can a public speaking coach change your life? - "Making Conversations Count"

How can public speaking coaches change your life episode artwork

You’ll hear:

 

Freddy vs Jason (1m13s)

What Tyler does now (4m10s)

Everyone says you need to sell the benefits. It's actually more about selling the solution! (8m30s)

Tyler's favourite family trip (13m39s)

Mannerisms. Hmmmm… (26m10s)

Tyler’s conversation that counted (39m50s)

 

Freddy vs Jason (1m13s)

 

Wendy

Just looked up your IMDb.

 

Tyler

How's that for you?

 

Wendy

Well, I'm just surprised that you are a good and all round sort of sane individual, having been on "Freddie versus Jason". I was like...."ahhh can't look!"

 

Tyler

So the funny thing is that almost everybody gravitates to that production. Like you were in Freddy versus Jason. I'm like, let me tell you....

 

Tyler

I've not seen it.

 

Tyler

...how very little I am in Freddy versus Jason. Like, blink and you miss me. And yet so many people actually know the scene when I explain it. And the people who have seen the movie, I know exactly who you are.....the counselor. I'm like, you don't know. And they're like, explaining the scene, and I'm like, oh, you do know. How do you know? I am so much nothing in that film. The funny thing is I got that role because I was actually doing photo double stand in and stunt work on that movie. And they needed somebody who could do this thing last minute.

 

Wendy

Put that broom down.

 

Tyler

Yeah, almost like that. So no word of a lie. For, like, three weeks prior to it, I was doing stand in work. And most stand in work, you just kind of sit in your chair off screen and just kind of wait and watch the actors do their thing. And I was doing almost nothing. I was literally sleeping on set.... "Annette wants to talk to you". That's extras casting, by the way. That's not main casting. That's extras casting. And I was like, oh. And I thought I was about to get fired because sleeping on set. Because she had come to set and Annette never comes to set. And I was like, oh, fuck. I'm like, "Hi". She's like, "hey". I'm like, "you're remarkably cheery. What's going on?" Because I'm still in a sleep haze. And she's like, "hey, do you want to do a speaking role?" I'm like, "I'm your extras ca.... Sure. I'm confused right now." And then she explained what was going on, and I was like, okay, sure. Let's do this thing. Why not? Two lines. That was all it was.

 

Wendy

See, I just thought I'll have a look and see because I know you'd say you'd done childhood acting, and I thought I'll go and have a look. And I've been playing around, and the podcast is on IMDb. So I thought, oh, I can credit him now. That's cool.

 

Tyler

Oh, that's awesome.

 

Wendy

Fast forward 20 years to the grown up job that you're doing now then Tyler is...

 

Tyler

I'm an adult, babysitter.

 

Wendy

You're the manny.

 

Tyler

Yeah.

 

What Tyler does now (4m10s)

 

Wendy

Just for the sake of the listeners, tell us what you do now.

 

Tyler

I wear many hats, primarily. I am now a best selling author and speaker coach. So I train people on how to give better presentations, feel more confident speaking to groups of people. And then I also run a safety consulting company. And you would think the two would be wildly disparate, that they just don't blend. But I actually got into the safety speaking or more specifically, the public speaker training from my safety consulting practice, because I found that the biggest hindrance to leadership being able to communicate their safety program and implement it. And in fact, the reason that my company is called Total Buyin is because the reason people couldn't get buyin was they had a very poor way of communicating and most people struggle with this public speaking persona. So my most popular training course was actually my "Power To Speak Naked" Course, which was rebranded to the "Power To Speak Naked", just to have a little bit more pop and sizzle!....

 

Wendy

Not in my mirror!

 

Tyler

Originally it was called Basic Instructional Technique because I liked the acronym. It was B.I.T. I'm going to give you a B.I.T.

 

Tyler

And the funny thing is, it was a way to trick people into learning how to public speak without thinking they were going to public speak. But I found that a lot of people felt ambushed by it because when they realised that two days was going to be public speaking and only public speaking, they were like, I don't public speak. And I'm like, Actually, you do. Yeah. The safety consultant kind of morphed into this public speaker training, which has really brought my life full circle. Right. You go from child actor to retiring after 20 years, because you get to do that. So I got to retire at 25, go back to school, get an engineering discipline, start my own business, watch that business crumble and fail, and then start to find my path in safety. And that was a weird detour too, becoming a safety professional after being a geomatics professional just because I had to take all this training to run my Geomatics company, to be compliant with the government. And all of those little twists and turns have brought me to this culmination of being able to, A, speak to executives on their level in a very sympathetic and understanding way, but also show them how they can communicate to everyone and vary their message and train them to be more effective communicators. It has just been bizarre and remarkably rewarding.

 

Wendy

I don't know about you, Tyler, but don't you find it fascinating that really, it boils down to we're all in sales, it doesn't matter what it is that you're talking about, you've just got to find that something that you are happy and passionate to communicate about.

 

Tyler

Yeah, no, we're all selling something. And I think that's the thing that I really was a light bulb moment for me when I was explaining safety, because I heard it all the time. Right. As a safety professional, your job is to sell safety. And I'm like, is it, though? And in my head, I was like, no, but really, it's about communicating. And then I'm like, well, sales is communication. And so, yes, we are all selling something, even if it's a belief in ourselves. Right? We need to communicate that vision of us so that other people can buy into that vision of us. I find it amazing that's kind of what the world boils down to is we're all selling something.

 

Everyone says you need to sell the benefits. It's actually more about selling the solution!

 

Wendy

And the first lesson we have to buy into... going to stay on brand... is the belief in ourselves, isn't it? That's the first lesson. And when it comes to anything at all, then it doesn't matter. I have this conversation with many a guest, is that we all think we're selling an outcome, yet in actual fact, what we want to feel is the transformation. So that's what we're buying into, isn't it? You can do this, but that's going to mean this as well. So often it's the byproducts that we want more than the thing.

 

Tyler

Yeah, it's funny, I was reading an article yesterday about good presentations and everybody thinks they need to sell the benefits and features and the reality is you need to sell the solution. And a lot of times that solution comes with identifying what the problem is to begin with and how for a lot of us, the problem is our own lack of belief in our own abilities. And so the first person that we need to sell to is ourselves. Like, what makes you capable of doing that? And I know for me, I've spoken on stage to tens of thousands of people. I've performed to auditoriums of thousands of people. I have in my band played to an outdoor venue that was almost hundreds of thousands of people. I think that when we played our venue there was 90,000 people. And like that everybody looks at me and goes, well, aren't you scared? I'm like, well, at that point, no, I wasn't scared of that. But let me tell you something that does terrify me. Sitting in an executive's office who earns millions of dollars every year and telling them that they're really bad at public speaking and helping them get there because... you want to talk about an inferiority complex, I'm like, who am I to be coaching this person? And they're looking at me going, how does he get up on stage every day and not feel terrified?

 

Wendy

They're disproportionate, aren't they, in terms of comparison?

 

Tyler

Exactly. And that's the thing. As soon as we recognise that we are all people and we all struggle with some of these self doubts, we all struggle with self doubt. It's just what are we doubting in that time? And for me, it's been remarkably freeing to be able to recognise that I have this skill set, this is the thing that I'm good at. And lucky for me, it only took 42 years to get to this point because there are people who don't know what they're good at for years and years and years and years. They spend all this time chasing the tiger tail and just doesn't they never catch it. And for me, I feel really blessed that I've been able to mash up all of my strengths and be able to compensate for my areas of improvement by outsourcing the people who do it way better than me. I'm not a good business man, which is hilarious because I technically own three companies now and will be starting a fourth one this year. Yeah, apparently I'm a masochist as well. But I recognise where I am, where my strengths are, and that is being able to give very clear direction, communicate an idea, and allow then people to go on their own. I'm very good at marshaling and connecting people, and then I have this really good skill set of being able to stand up on stage and just engage a crowd. And that has allowed me to do some really, really amazing things with my life and have just a really fun lifestyle, too. Like, I get to travel with my daughter. That's cool. That's really fun for me. And a high value on my hierarchy, too, is family. So to be able to bring her and have her a part of what I do, to be able to book vacations with the whole family around a speaking schedule and tour and make it a paid vacation... Like all those things are just really fun.

 

Tyler's favourite family trip (13m39s)

 

Wendy

Double barrel question. What would you say your favorite trip with her has been? And what would you say her favorite trip with you has been?

 

Tyler

You know, it's funny. You'd think it was going to Houston, but I actually think her favorite trip with me was when we went to the houseboat with my brother and sister in law. And the fact that I had the time to do that, that's the other thing too. My wife was in Ireland, and it was a long weekend here in Canada, except tember long weekend. I believe everybody else was going back to school, but Kenzie at that time would have been four, and so she didn't have school. And Jen and I... my wife and I had basically swapped Kenzie at the airport. I was coming back from a speaking engagement, and Jen was flying out to Ireland, and I think we didn't quite do the hand off at the airport, but it was pretty close. There's, like a day overlap. Hi, how are you? And my sister in law phoned me, and she said, hey, we've got the boat for the weekend, actually for the week. Did you want to join us? And I had nothing on the go. And so I looked at Kenzie, I'm like, do you want to go hang out at the lake? She's like, sure. And we packed up all the floaty stuff, and we went out to the house boat, and nobody else could make it because everybody else had things that were starting because it was the end of September. And so we basically toured around with Captain Jim and found a private beach and docked the boat and floated around the lake for four or five days. And Kenzie had an absolute blast. Like, she was uncovering rocks. She was going for hikes, she was swimming, and the houseboat had a water slide off the back of it. She's terrified to go off the water slide until Daddy took her the one time, and then she was still terrified to go off it. But then she wanted to do it again. Just all the things she still talks about it to this day, to the point where we ended up going houseboating again with Jen the following year. And she's like, I thought this was going to be more fun. You made it sound like it was more fun. I was like, I don't know what to tell you, babe. This is basically what we did the last time. This is a lot of fun for us. She's like, nah, this is not my thing.

 

Wendy

But isn't it interesting? Because what Kenzie has done really, is she's overcome some fears as well. And she's done that with dad holding a hand.

 

Tyler

Yeah, well, she does that a lot, too. Unfortunately, my daughter is the child of a former child actor, and I know the industry inside and out. So when I saw my daughter for the first time, I'm like, oh, wow, you look like an alien. And then about a week later, she stopped looking like an alien. It was just absolutely adorable. And then, so my next thought was like, you need to be in film. And everything in me was like, but your daddy can't be a stage daddy. No. And so she was in her first commercial before she was a year old. The first time she was on film, she was eleven months old. And I think she got her first modeling gig. She was coming up 22 months. Like, she wasn't yet two. It's actually that photo, that modeling gig photo is the cover of my cell phone because I absolutely love it. They captured an innocence about my child that I can't even replicate or duplicate because I see the terror that she is when I try to put her to bed.

 

Wendy

You can't control what she dreams about either, Tyler.

 

Tyler

But I've watched her grow up in film and be able to communicate to me, too. Like, Covid was really hard on her because she really enjoyed auditions prior to Covid because it meant that she got to go and see other kids. And in the audition room, they always had toys and she got to meet people and be social. My daughter is very, very social. And then when she got to go into the casting session, daddy couldn't come. It was just her and the casting director. Daddy had to wait outside and then she got to go and she got to play. And then if she got the role, she got to go on set. And I could come with her, but she got to be on camera. And Daddy didn't, except for the couple of times where we've gotten to do things together, which has been super fun, too. And then when Covid came and we switched from casting in person to casting virtually and doing self tapes, she hated it because casting was no longer getting dressed up and getting pretty and memorizing lines in the car ride to the running, rehearsing lines in the car ride to the audition.

 

Wendy

It's all the anticipation, though, in the build up, the interaction of it all.

 

Tyler

Yes. Because now it was coming down into the basement and reading with Daddy again, and I'm so proud of my daughter, because about the fifth audition into it, she was like, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm like, Baby, you love being on set. She's like, yeah, but I need to be on set if it means I have to go down to the basement and audition. And I was like, you are so mature. And for five. I love you. I was so proud. But she's overcoming those fears and finding her voice, which I shouldn't be surprised, because I dedicated my book to her and said that very thing. I was like, May you always have the courage to find your voice and know that you will be heard. So if I'm going to say that in the book, if I'm going to put it in writing, I'm going to put it out the universe, obviously she's going to be able to do that.

 

Wendy

Well. I think it's fascinating that there are parents out there that do this, put on to their children, their dreams, that sort of didn't happen in one thing or another. And you're not describing a child who doesn't have a mind of her own, which is great.

 

Tyler

Yes.

 

Wendy

So have you got any plans to bring her on stage with you at a speaking gig? Do you think she would handle that?

 

Tyler

Would she handle it? Absolutely. Will I do it? If she wants to? Honestly, we do the things that she wants to do. If I was a stage dad, I'd be like, no, you've got to audition because this is paying for your education. Because that's how I paid for my education. You start acting at six years old and 75% of your earnings go into a trust that builds up quickly, especially if you have good financial management with it. Was I sad a little bit when she stopped wanting to do it? Yeah, I was, because I see how much she enjoys it and I was sad that it was ruined for her but, you know, she also asked me a couple of weeks ago, she's like, Daddy, over the summer, can I start auditioning again? Sure. You don't have school. If that's what you want to do, we'll do it.

 

Wendy

It's a double edged sword, isn't it, Tyler? Because she's clearly... there are two sides to this. She's missed the auditioning, but she's also missed her thing with Daddy. She's got to be an element of that as well.

 

Tyler

Yeah, I think that has a bit to it, too. And so to your original question, would I bring her on stage? Absolutely. Because she loves that environment the same way that I do. But I would only bring her on, first of all, if it served a purpose, because that's the other thing, too, for me, I don't do anything on stage unless it serves a purpose, and more specifically, if it serves the audience. If it isn't going to be a benefit to my audience, I'm not going to bring my kid on stage just as a gimmick. Is she super cute? Yeah. Could I sell more programs if I put her up there? Absolutely I could, because you don't want to deny this child something. So buy Daddy's program and it would sell. But hey, I'm not going to exploit my daughter that way.

 

Wendy

No, but look, if I was in the audience and she came on stage and it was like the audience could ask her anything, I would just say, how much has Daddy paid you to do this? And I can just imagine her going, oh, no, I asked. Right? Now if you imagine that's the kind of endorsement, isn't it, that anybody would really want us as a parent or for any kind of fan. The fact that it's such a personal relationship just kind of strengthens that for me. So I just think there could be something in this. I can see this going somewhere.

 

Tyler

Yeah, I think you're right. It is a testament to her free will and the fact that my training works because she would want to do it as opposed to not want to do it. But I don't know what next month holds. I don't even know what the next hour holds. So I don't know what her wants and desires are going to be as she grows up and she kind of ebbs and flows out of a want for the spot. She's really, truly... they say that a child is a reflection of their parents, and she is. My wife and I are truly polar opposites. We are Ying and Yang. Right now. You want to talk the astrology, you're the ram. She's, you're the ox. Like, we are literally six years apart. She's not a tourist. She's... I believe a Pisces. So she's a water sign and I'm a fire sign. Right.

 

Wendy

She can put you out.

 

Tyler

Oh can she ever. But at the same time, we really complement each other because she's always allowing me and in fact, encouraging me to take the spotlight. And I'm always encouraging of her if she wants to step behind. She loves being a puppet master. First of all, she's a project manager. She loves to pull the strings from backstage. Right. Like, she is the ultimate wizard of Oz. Just don't look behind the curtain. Don't ask how the magic is done, but know that it's going to happen and it will work.

 

Wendy

We all need a bit more of that kind of lesson.

 

Tyler

Do not pay attention to the man behind the curtain. And she's brilliant. So I look at my daughter and when my daughter is being very like, you can see her thinking through a problem and she's very calculated with it and her daddy is not that way. I am one of those solve it through repeated trial and error. And Jen is very methodical in the let's not error, let's get it right the first time. So she thinks through the steps where I'm like, well, let's place the cog here and if it doesn't work, round peg, square hole. Doesn't work. Okay, round peg, triangle hole. No, still doesn't work. Oh, look, there's a round hole, let's stick it through there. I will try different options and Jen tries to do the right solution the first time. And it's interesting watching Kenzie blend that and find her own way, her own path and her own voice.

 

Wendy

There's nothing more magical is that being a parent and seeing what you influence every day, and don't realise what leaks.

 

Tyler

Yeah, it's amazing too. Yeah. Because she'll do things you're like, oh, I'm so proud of you. And then she'll do things and I'm like, oh, do not do that. And then I go, oh, but I would have done that. Even the way that my daughter... it's a sheer mirror, right? Children are mirrors of ourselves. And I watch her get frustrated right now and I hear me in her response where she'll go "ugh". It even sounds like me. And creepishly. She looks like me when she does it right? And when she gets really upset, deeply hurt by society, she looks like her mum. Like the way that you can see her process the hurt... "and why would that happen"? And I see her mum in her instantly and it's amazing how she has become this mirror to us and patterns our behavior. So there's things that she does and I'm like, oh, yeah, just like me. And then there's things that she does and I go, that's just like me.

 

Mannerisms. Hmmmm… (26m10s)

 

Wendy

Yeah. Mannerisms, it's a big topic. Mannerisms kind of bleeds out in body language, doesn't it? As well. When you're on stage and I've seen lots of different tips for what to do, people just don't know what to do with their hands, do they?

 

Tyler

Yeah, hands, feet. And here's the thing, because people will be told, keep still. And then you're unnaturally mannequin. And then people are like, don't pace, which really don't pace. But there are times where walking and movement is necessary and people are like, well, keep your hands still or use your hands, but don't use your hands too much, but find the thing. And then there is no magic bullet or one answer. What it is, is. And you and I have had this conversation offline. So let's say for your listeners online authenticity is synonymous with self awareness. If you want to be a truly authentic presenter, you need to know who you are at your core. I am a hand talker. I am a very large personality. I'm going to express myself with my hands, with my body, with my face. I'm expressive, but I'm not using one thing. Right. Like, what president was it? I think it was Bush senior had his thumb right. This was how he would deliver it.

 

Wendy

the hammer blow.

 

Tyler

The hammer blow, yeah. And everybody has that one thing. I think Bob Dole did it too. No, it was not the president. It was Bob Dole had this up. Bob Dole is what Bob Dole is going to do. And it never went away. This was the only gesture that happened from the podium. That's when it becomes a mockery, where, for me, I am going to wave my hands a lot. They're going to do this round, circular motion, but I'm also going to accentuate a thing, or I'm going to point to a thing, or I'm going to use a broad, wide gesture. When it's appropriate. I'm going to use my body to express itself. One of the challenges that I always give to any one of my clients is stand still for the first 60 seconds of your talk just to see how unnatural it feels. But at the same time that it makes you hyper aware of why you want to move, because sometimes you're moving to dissipate nervous energy, and that's pacing, that's nervous pacing, and that's distracting to an audience, and it's taking away from your message. But sometimes you need to move because your body needs to move. And if you suppress that instinct because somebody told you you need to be still, you need to keep your hands still, then you become this weird robotic mannequin mime where everything is frozen and still...

 

Tyler

And you're not on Zoom.

 

Wendy

And you're not on zoom. Yeah. There is time for movement, and it's finding and again, this is from my theatrical background when we would do blocking. There is time for movement, and there is time for stillness. Both have their ability to enhance the dialogue that is being delivered. Both have the ability to detract from the dialogue that is being delivered. And the key is learning when is the right time for both?

 

Wendy

So it's a lot like it depends.

 

Tyler

Like anything in life, right? When is it appropriate to do anything? Depends on the circumstances in which you're doing it.

 

Wendy

Yeah. I think this is why I like speaking to people like you, Tyler, that have got this fluid approach. There are frameworks that you can follow, and there are best practices that you can have key do's and don'ts. That isn't necessarily going to affect the it depends side of things. But it's going deeper into that intuition, isn't it, of your craft and what it is that you do. You can't even see my hands. I'm doing this going deeper into your craft, you know, needing bread.

 

Tyler

Yeah. But as you need the bread, using the hands to point the arrow and show the flow like it's an illustrative thing. We all are going to do it naturally. And the thing is, it's funny because if people are just listening to the audio, they're listening to making conversations count and all they have is the audio, they can still hear that movement.

 

Tyler

If you don't do it, your voice sounds different. You need that movement and it translates. If you were to do your podcast the next time, sitting on your hands and never move, people would be like, what is wrong with this episode? They wouldn't know, right? They couldn't see, but they would feel that it was just a little off. I was watching an unbelievable interview between two of my favorite comics, whitney Cummings and Taylor Tomlinson. And it was right at the beginning of the pandemic. It was like a few months in and somehow they were able to record live. They've done like an isolation thing. And in the conversation, Taylor was talking about how she had just recorded her first special and some of the things that she did to get with they were talking about insecurities and being a woman in comedy and some things that the men don't have to think about. And she was talking about just prior. She was promoting the special. She was on The Tonight Show and the makeup artist said, why don't you leave your hair down? You're so pretty. Why don't we just leave your hair down? And Taylor always ties her hair back because that's where she feels comfortable. And she does a lot of she's very animated when she tells her story. She reenacts a lot of the stuff and she bends over a lot. She takes physicalities. And when she's doing her storytelling, which is, by the way, fantastic thing to do when you want to tell a story. And she was talking about how she left her hair down and it threw her because comedy is very much like sports, where when you're at the top of your game, you're at the top of your game because you can do things in repetition. And her hair being loose through her off. And the Whitney Cummings was talking about how she had done a similar thing when she was filming her HBO special and left her hair down. And normally she keeps it back and she had, you know, lip gloss and her hair kept getting stuck in the lip gloss and it threw her. She's like, it's not that it was a bad set. It's that it wasn't the best set that it could be. And it's recognizing what are those things that are comfortable for us? What are those things that ground us? What are those things that illustrate the story so that we can tell the story better, so that we're not in our head, that we are connected with our body and subsequently connected with our audience? Because ultimately it's. About the audience and how do the distractions yeah. How do we give ourselves the best chance to connect with our audience, and that is to be out of our head. So I was fascinated by watching this interview at how much I related to it. Like, I have my pretalk routine that I have to do. There's the long version of it there's been nice to have, right? Like, I like it when I can walk through a venue and I can touch things. I like when I can meet with the audience prior to it and do a little bit of pre audience analysis. But my must have I have to have my five minutes backstage. I have to do my breathing exercises, I have to get my glass of water in before I go on stage. I absolutely, positively have to do my visualizations. If I don't do those things, I feel off each time. So it's finding those things that are going to serve you so that you can serve your audience.

 

Wendy

And a lot of people would call those rituals, but they're not are they about setting yourself up for what's to come?

 

Tyler

Yeah. And there is a form of ritual to it in that it's repeatable. So whether it's rich, do you call it ritual or whether you call it ritual?

 

Wendy

Oh, come on. You know, I've spoken to Brad.

 

Tyler

Yeah, yes, I do. But he had a point.

 

Wendy

But he does have a point, and he's made a very good point of using that terminology to serve people. And that's the point, isn't it? And it's clearly it serves you by doing things in a certain way and getting prepared. And just sort of going back to your point about the movement of things and an audio and the way that you can feel that. I can categorically tell you that after 2 million or something telephone calls, that if you're having a bad day and they say, Smile when you dial, and it does help, and it helps your posture and everything, right? But if you're having a terrible day, don't do it because people can hear that still, even when you've just made that extra effort gosh, yeah. Body language. Because that hearing tall that we have is so finely tuned when it's the only thing we have.

 

Tyler

Especially when it's the only thing we have. You know, you look at anybody who has any form of sensory deprivation, and then you have those heightened senses when you can only rely on the audio. It's amazing the cues that you can pick up on. And as you said, our brain is finely tuned to it. You know when somebody is smiling on the phone, you know when they're having a bad day. And it goes the other way, too. I've talked to people about this with energy work. We know when there's been a fight in a room, even if we've never witnessed the fight, you've walked into that room and people were like and then you get that link. You're like, oh, what is with that? And you're like and you become hyper sensitive and aware of you're walking on eggshells a little bit, because what did I just walk into? You didn't witness a fight. There was nothing you didn't see. You don't know. But you know that something went on. And we as human beings have a far better connection with each other than I think we give ourselves credit for.

 

Wendy

It's that invisible signature, isn't it, that is left behind, which is quite something.

 

Tyler

Well, and not only that's left behind, but that leads in front, right? Like, I have a magnetic field that travels around me, and that's leading my actions, and it's being left behind. And we literally do humans are basically big batteries. We have electromagnetic pulses running through us. That's how our body actually stays alive. When those electrical pulses stop, so does everything else, because the electrical pulses are what runs your brain in your heart. So when the electricity in your body stops, when your battery gets drained, that's when the body stops working. And anybody who's done any kind of 10th grade physics knows that if you run an electrical current through something, there is an electromagnetic wave that comes from that. That's how half of modern science measures. The body is through EKGs and your Cat scans and all the rest of it. All they're looking at is electrical pulses through your various organs. And if you have this electrical field around you, it's just a magnetic field, but like anything, you have electrons then that are moving through the air in front of you, and you have electrons that are moving through the air behind you. And you are literally affecting your environment beyond your actual physicality. And what you do with that and the energy that you're putting out, because you're literally putting out energy, is what is going to be felt. And so you got to remember, you are leading with energy just as much as you're leaving energy behind.

 

Wendy

That's deep. And it warrants part two.

 

Tyler

Let's do part two. Wendy.

 

Wendy

Let's do part two. And it also leads me into let's keep these listeners awake as well. Let's fire back up those neurons.

 

Tyler

Let's get those synapses firing, folks. Come on. Let's make this conversation count.

 

Wendy

I want to know the conversation that counted for you, Tyler.

 

Tyler

I've had so many, but when you said it, the first one that popped to mind was the conversation I had with my doctor, mentor and father figure growing up, Dr. Bob Corbett. I had a medical incident when I was 17 that left the left side of my body paralyzed. And I distinctly remember about a month and a half afterwards being in his office crying because my face didn't work, my body didn't work. My acting career was over, and being so frustrated with Western medicine. Here we are in the 21st century, and they can't diagnose what happened to me. Was it a stroke? Was it a bell's policy? Was it a mini stroke? Why did somebody say I had oh... I can't even remember. It just seemed so bizarre and it didn't even sound like a thing that could happen. A full body. I don't even remember. Anyway. Nobody could tell me what it was. And Bob sat me down. He said, Think of the blessing that is. I said, how is not knowing what the hell happened to me a blessing, sir? And he went, if you had a diagnosis, there would be one course of treatment which may or may not work. You had a stroke. There's nothing we can do. But we don't know what you had. So now we have the freedom to try anything. And if you can try, anything could work. In fact, everything could work. So let's start trying things and see what works. And then he quoted Edison. Edison didn't find a thousand ways not to make a light bulb right until he found the one that did. Bob has been a steady oarsman for me in my life, and what I appreciate the most about him, he really is an oarsman. He allows me to captain my ship. What's the course that we want to set, Captain? But he will be steady at the hand. If I tell him where due west. He will say, Very well, due west. He'll look at me and he says, you understand that looks like it could very possibly be bad weather. I'll say, yes. He goes, okay, let's weather this storm, then. We'll batten down the hatches. And I will keep this boat due west. And I have always been in great admiration of him and I've tried to pattern and emulate him as best I can in that he was one of the first people to teach me to like, I don't believe in finding the positive in life.

 

Wendy

Is that if it's just never big enough?

 

Tyler

It's not even that. What it is, is that my father passed away at six. I don't think that was a positive. I'm not going to be like, hey, dad died. Good for that. No, there's not a positive. But what I do look for is the grace in situations. There is grace in everything. My father passing away created an opportunity for me to have multiple father figures in my life, at least ten, Bob being one of them. My medical incident gave me a chance to reframe and refocus what was important to me. Really crystallize friendships, because I had incredible friend support when that happened. And in high school, that's rare too, right? I was a freak. I had a face that didn't work. The worst that my friends did was they'd make me laugh because I made this sound because I couldn't close my mouth. And it was comical. I don't blame them. It was irritating sometimes, but that was the worst that I got. How dare my friends try to make me laugh in a time of great tragedy for me.

 

Wendy

That's what friends do.

 

Tyler

That is what friends do. I have always looked for the grace and a lot of that came from the lessons that I learned from Bob and continually learned from Bob. He's struggling currently medically, and I'm watching what he's going through and again, how he's handling it with grace because it's got to be so frustrating for him and to witness his partial acceptance, but also pushing of experimentation, like, what is the solution? I think that's the thing that I like the most about him too. And one of the things that I learned is there's a problem? What is the solution and how can I be proactive with it? And that first conversation, 17 years old in his office, isn't this a gift? And having him look at now you have multiple solutions instead of one has influenced me for the rest of my life.

 

Wendy

What did work?

 

Tyler

I don't know which one. It was the kitchen sink. It was the kitchen sink that did it.

 

Wendy

Good.

 

Tyler

Bob is a doctor of chiropractic. His wife Joanne is a doctor of chiropractic who is a holistic practitioner. She's also an acupuncturist. So like with Jo, I was doing laser acupuncture, chiropractic and Eastern herbs and medicines. With Bob. I was doing chiropractic. They recommended me to an incredible physiotherapist. So I was doing physio. I was also taking modern medications to encourage synaptic regrowth and get neurons firing again, I did so much, and for a year I was scanned, prodded, poked and all kinds of weird stuff. And I don't know what worked, but it all kind of blended together. And did my face works now? My body works now.

 

Wendy

You've got quite a fine face, I have to say.

 

Tyler

Why, thank you, Wendy.

 

Wendy

When you revealed how old you were, I was like, what?

 

Tyler

I drink a lot of water and I moisturize. And I have a six year old daughter who keeps me spry and youthful. And I play hockey three times a week as a goaltender, so I'm never off the ice. So I get in my physical workouts and it keeps my mind sharp, I think. I hope.

 

Wendy

But they do say, don't they, that your physical health has a really big impact on everything else. So clearly it's working for you. Well, I'm just glad for Dr. Bob and it's just so heartwarming that you're still in touch with him all these years later. I don't know anybody that has got a doctor that stuck around that long.

 

Tyler

Well, it's funny because, again, I've been in touch with a lot of these gentlemen who helped guide me in my early years. Not as often as I'd like to, but I still talked to my physician, Dr. Spackman. I played in a band with his son for a couple of years, Dr. Bob and I.. I took him when I was made master of my lodge. Bob, he was the first person I reached out to and asked him to be at the ceremony. He influenced my life so much that not only do I feel the need to pay it forward, because a lot of the lessons that I teach from stage are things that I've learned from him, but I also feel an obligation to pay back. Like, I wouldn't have the life that I have. He was the first one to introduce me to self development. He bought me a ticket to Dr. John Demartini's breakthrough experience, and I didn't understand how profound that would be until later. And I didn't fully appreciate what kind of a gift that was until later in life. But that's the kind of man that he was. He was like, this is the thing I'm going to invest in you. This is a thing that was important for me, that I think will be important for you, and that's put me on a path. Right. I wouldn't have had the opportunity to speak on Tony Robin stage in Dallas if it were not for that seed that was planted over 20 years ago. And we never know.

 

Wendy

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

Tyler

Trained public speaker here.

 

Wendy

(Laughs)

 

 

 

 

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ENGLISH: “That’s where this better before ideology fits. Because it’s at that stage where I feel they need to introduce a plateau. So if you’re climbing a mountain and you can’t just continually climb for five days running. Your body and your mind can’t cope with it. You can’t acclimatise the new height. You’ve got to have base camps, you’ve got to have a secondary camp and you’ve got to have these stages where you just adjust..”

ARABIC:

"هذا هو المكان الأفضل قبل أن تتناسب الأيديولوجيا. لأنه في تلك المرحلة حيث أشعر أنهم بحاجة إلى تقديم هضبة. لذلك إذا كنت تتسلق جبلًا ولا يمكنك التسلق باستمرار لمدة خمسة أيام ركض. جسمك وعقلك لا يمكنك التعامل معه. لا يمكنك التأقلم مع الارتفاع الجديد. يجب أن يكون لديك معسكرات أساسية ، ويجب أن يكون لديك معسكر ثانوي ويجب أن تكون لديك هذه المراحل حيث يمكنك تعديلها فقط .. "
 

SPANISH: “Ahí es donde encaja esto mejor antes de la ideología. Porque es en esa etapa donde siento que necesitan introducir una meseta. Entonces, si estás escalando una montaña y no puedes escalar continuamente durante cinco días seguidos. Tu cuerpo y tu mente No puedes lidiar con eso. No puedes aclimatarte a la nueva altura. Tienes que tener campamentos base, tienes que tener un campamento secundario y tienes que tener estas etapas en las que simplemente te ajustas…”.

 

FRENCH: C’est là que s’inscrit cette idéologie mieux avant. Parce que c’est à ce stade que je sens qu’ils doivent introduire un plateau. Donc, si vous escaladez une montagne et que vous ne pouvez pas continuer à grimper pendant cinq jours de suite. Votre corps et votre esprit Vous ne pouvez pas vous acclimater à la nouvelle hauteur. Vous devez avoir des camps de base, vous devez avoir un camp secondaire et vous devez avoir ces étapes où vous venez de vous ajuster...

GERMAN: Da passt diese Besser-vor-Ideologie. Weil ich das Gefühl habe, dass sie in diesem Stadium ein Plateau einführen müssen. Wenn Sie also einen Berg besteigen und nicht einfach fünf Tage hintereinander klettern können. Ihr Körper und Ihr Geist kann damit nicht fertig werden. Du kannst dich nicht an die neue Höhe gewöhnen. Du musst Basislager haben, du musst ein sekundäres Lager haben und du musst diese Etappen haben, wo du dich einfach anpassen musst..

 

HOW TO CONTINUE MAKING CONVERSATIONS COUNT…

We don’t want the conversation to stop there!

All of our listeners are important to us, so we would love it if you can connect with Wendy on LinkedIn and send her a message with your favourite episode!

BROWSE ALL EPISODES

paula senior YMCA

Episode 1 – Paula Senior

In our first episode, we speak to Paula Senior from the YMCA. Paula is a fund-raising officer and is currently preparing for the annual Sleepout to raise much needed funds for the night shelter, how covid has stretched them to the limits and how they have risen above the challenges faced by the homeless.

Nat schooler

Episode 2 – Nat Schooler

Can one conversation really influence where you are driven? Nat Schooler

Influence marketeer Nat Schooler joins Wendy as they chat about how important it is to produce strategic content online. Nat spends his time podcasting, writing, and driving across foreign continents for fun. However, their conversation quickly turns to the importance of building relationships with the people you want to work with. Nat places trust as the highest asset everyone should nurture.

Azam Mamujee M Cubed Tax specialist

Episode 3 – Azam Mamujee

In this episode, Wendy is joined by Managing Partner, Azam Mamujee a tax specialist with a voice of velvet.

Azam agrees that conversations count however he explains how numbers can tell a much more powerful story. He has a catchphrase “Give Azam the facts, I’ll save you the Tax”.

Jenny Procter Marketing for introverts bondfield

Episode 4 – Jenny Procter

Jenny Procter – Bondfield Marketing

Making Conversations about Marketing for Introverts Count

Let us introduce you to Jenny Procter, a marketing consultant and self-proclaimed introvert.

Jenny writes PR and communications for B2B clients and has her own podcast show, and she discusses issues around running her own business as an entrepreneur.

Andrew Deighton team coaching

Episode 5 – Andrew Deighton

Andrew Deighton – Team Coaching. Making Conversations about Teams Count. We are joined by Andrew Deighton today, who helps build and develop high-performing teams through strategy and processes in today’s remote working world.

Wendy has worked with Andrew in a second business through mentoring and knows firsthand how his advice relates to many aspects of running a business.

Nicky Pattinson sales expert public speaker

Episode 6 – Nicky Pattinson

Nicky Pattinson – Leading Sales Authority & Public Speaker. Making Conversations about Personality Count. Nicky Pattinson speaks the Truth in all she does! A northern lass who traded on the markets at the beginning of her career, similarly to your host. Now, Nicky has a best-selling book “Email: Don’t Get Deleted” and her own YouTube channel NICKYPTV.

Buckso Dhillon Wooley

Episode 7 – Buckso Dhillon-Wooley

Buckso Dhillon-Wooley – Actress, Speaker & Business Coach. Making Conversations about Self-Belief Count. A true diamond, Buckso is very much aligned with herself and the many facets of her own personality.
As an actor, speaker and coach her mission in life is to help people connect with their higher self.
Being aligned with yourself on a spiritual, physical and emotional level allows you to shine brighter in everything you touch.
Buckso Dillon-Whooley is a well known Actress, who has starred in Disney’s recent remake of Aladdin and is a long-standing actor on Coronation Street with appearances on many UK TV shows.

James Daniel Copywriter

Episode 8 – James Daniel

James Daniel – Copywriter
Making Conversations about Copywriting Count
Joining us in this episode is copywriter James Daniel.
He describes himself as ‘That old guy who writes copy – you know, the beardy one with glasses.’
We should point out there could be other old guys with beards and glasses out there!
It’s easy to like James’ style of writing because he’s a conversationalist who realizes that people don’t speak geek or tech.

Henny Maltby Digital marketing agency

Episode 9 – Henny Maltby

Henny Maltby – Digital Marketing Agency, Pink Elephant Media. Making Conversations about Digital Marketing Count. When the Pandemic hit in early 2020, Henny Maltby turned to her husband as they both realised their business was going to change forever. Offering online marketing to large corporate businesses who cut budgets left a hole to fill. By opening the conversation up with local businesses, it was obvious what the next chapter would be for them at Pink Elephant Media…

Kim Walsh Phillips

Episode 10 – Kim Walsh Phillips

Kim Walsh Phillips owns Powerful Professionals, a business that helps empower entrepreneurs to turn clicks into cash and identifying the superpowers in others so they can fly high. Kim is an expert in social selling strategy.

Amelia Thorpe Wellbeing coach

Episode 11 – Amelia Thorpe

Amelia Thorpe – Mental Health Wellbeing Coach. Making Conversations about Mental Wealth Count. Meet Amelia Thorpe, founder of Wellbeing 360, who talks to Wendy about how important it is to give equal priority to our mental and physical health. Listening to Amelia’s story will bring a beacon of hope that we can all take charge of our own conversations which will give us back the control that slips sometimes when times are tough. Amelia is a wellbeing counsellor.

John Attridge capacity business

Episode 12 – John Attridge

John Attridge – Guiding Businesses to Reach their Full Potential by Tapping into Spare Capacity

Making Conversations about Capacity Count. John Attridge, owner of BBX turns spare capacity into value for many businesses. When you listen to John you just know there is a bigger story to this guy as his accent gives it away!
John has successfully built a business network and community to help people fill spare capacity and exchange services. It is a brilliant concept and if you’ve not come across it before yet in touch with me and I’ll tell you more. Using the BBX community helped my own business through the lockdown and has provided such a lot of support and new relationships.

Clara Wilcox return to work coaching for parents

Episode 13 – Clara Wilcox

Clara Wilcox runs The Balance Collective, Specialising in Return to Work Coaching for Parents. Making Conversations about Returning to Work Count! This is a conversation that every Mum will resonate with, juggling home and work is not simply a balancing act but a superpower!

Clara recognized through her own personal journey that the right support for Mum’s returning to work was only available from the employer’s point of view. This causes a biased approach and is not always helpful in an emotive decision-making process.

dr ivan misner bni networking

Episode 14 – Dr Ivan Misner

In this episode, Ivan and Wendy explore how conversation is the foundation of all growth and learning. How times have changed, looking back and also predicting our future generations experiences, yet communication will still be the underpin even it how that looks has changed.

Janine Coombes marketing coach

Episode 15 – Janine Coombes

Google has recognised this lady as the #1 marketing coach and her video series mixes humour with key messages, it is the lovely Janine Coombes. Janine is a marketing coach for personal brands.
In this episode, Janine and Wendy share how using the right language influences the conversations we have and how it affects our results.

Lizzie Butler presentations coach

Episode 16 – Lizzie Butler

Making conversations about presentations count! Delighted to introduce Lizzie Butler, owner of LB Communications, who met Wendy at a local online networking event and immediately hit it off. Lizzie helps you to grow your business through personal development training and how to achieve brilliant communication.

Jem hills inspirational speaker

Episode 17 – Jem Hills

Making conversations about Bullying count. Jem Hills is an inspirational speaker, trainer & performance coach.
Talking to Wendy in this episode is ex-marine Jem Hills who you might find it hard to believe was affected by bullying and a lack of confidence. As a release Jem discovered Northern dancing and practiced as a bedroom activity that later led to an accidental release of freestyle dancing at a competition. The dancing-built resilience and the foundations for the training to complete the Mud Run and onto his Elite Special Forces career.

Peter howard graphic design

Episode 18 – Peter Howard

Peter Howard runs a design studio that is ranked in the top 100 in the country and was responsible for the WAG brand. Having known Peter and his team for many years, Wendy has heard lots of his stories but knew there would be one she had not heard before.

Taz Thornton & Asha Clearwater business coaches

Episode 19 – Taz Thornton & Asha Clearwater

Making conversations about partnerships count. In a Making Conversations Count first, we are joined by two dynamic guests in this episode. Both Taz & Asha provide business coach services in different areas. Joining Wendy chatting about all the elements that make up a great debate. You are not going to want to miss the observations with Taz Thornton and Asha Clearwater around questioning, opinions, debate and discernment that makes for wonderful colourful conversations.

Vicki Carroll O'Neill

Episode 20 – Vicki Carroll (formerly O’Neill)

Vicki works with entrepreneurs, small business owners and executive leaders who are stuck in their business and need someone as a partner to coach them to their next level of success. Vicki offers growth marketing consultant advice, strategy plans & also organises in-house marketing teams.

heidi medina business coach

Episode 21 – Heidi Medina

This episode contains one of our most important conversations, so we’re definitely going to make it count!
Wendy Harris brings Heidi Medina into the conversation today, who opens up the conversation about abuse she has encountered.
She’s a Linkedin expert and business coach who is the exact opposite of the classic ‘my way or the highway’.
Whether you meet Heidi online or in person she is the same.

Niraj Kapur online sales coach

Episode 22 – Niraj Kapur

In this episode, Wendy is joined by Online Sales Coach Niraj Kapur from “Everybody works in Sales” a business that helps companies with their sales processes.

Steve Judge paralympian motivational speaking

Episode 23 – Steve Judge

A life-changing accident that almost claimed a life but actually birthed a mindset shift.  Making conversations about speaking count!

Imagine losing your limbs in an accident.

That’s a real human test.

Most people would fall into one of two camps.

Feel the loss, and struggle to overcome it, before essentially accepting your ‘job lot’ and just becoming a bit angry.

Many would. And they’d be forgiven.

Then there are others, who would not let it defeat them, or define them.

Steve Judge is definitely in the latter of the two camps.

Nikolas Venios the ideas agency

Episode 24 – Nik Venios

We reflect on how this business man helped his poorly mother solve a household challenge which led to a career of making conversations about ideas and innovation count. We will all eventually lose our parents. Sadly, it’s a part of life. Not many of us have to suffer that loss at the tender age of just six. We couldn’t think of a nicer guy to help us with our goal of making conversations about ideas count. Truly, if anyone can hold a conversation about ideas, it’s Nik Venios of the Ideas Agency. Did you know that NASA has a genius test? During this episode, you’ll find out all about this, and the fascinating stats surrounding it.

Jonny cooper hates marketing

Episode 25 – Jonny Cooper

Most business owners hate marketing. That’s probably because they don’t understand it. Someone who does get marketing is Jonny Cooper, and even he can’t stand it! In fact, he despises it so much, he built a business around it. Welcome to Jonny Hates Marketing! This week we’re making conversations about messaging count. Messaging is so important to get correct. Your entire marketing voice depends on it. That’s why you need to listen very carefully to Jonny Cooper.

Wendy Harris telephone trainer how to sell over the phone

Episode 26 – Wendy Harris

Wendy Harris is an expert telemarketer, who has years worth of experience in cold-calling and doing it right. Now a podcast host, Wendy shares her story and how she became an advocate for making conversations count!

Will Polston Make it happen

Episode 27 – Will Polston

Making conversations about wealth….and Clubhouse….count! Paying it forward. Acting from a position of generosity and giving within the law of reciprocity. We’re talking to Will Polston.

Ray Blakney Live Lingua

Episode 28 – Ray Blakney

Making conversations about language count… Ray Blakney is the CEO And founder of online language school Live Lingua. Can you speak another language other than your native tongue? Wendy admitted to the “Making Conversations Count” team that she doesn’t, and we can’t help but feel she’s definitely not alone.

Many Ward write my book cuddle monster

Episode 29 – Mandy Ward

Mandy Ward is a book mentor, helping people to write their own books under the company ‘Write my book’. Mandy is also an author herself, including the popular children’s book ‘The Cuddle Monster’.

Sarah Townsend copywriter survival skills for freelancers

Episode 30 – Sarah Townsend

Sarah Townsend is a freelance copywriter and best-selling author of the book ‘survival skills for freelancers’. In this episode, we discuss the importance of conversations in the freelance world, and how things can lead to many opportunities…

Paul Furlong visual branding advertiser videographer

Episode 31 – Paul Furlong

Paul Furlong is part of Opus Media, producing TV advertising, videos, and photographs for businesses. He knows a thing or two about visual branding, and is considered a advertising guru!

Masami Sato founder B1G1

Episode 32 – Masami Sato

Masami Sato set up the B1G1 initiative. Helping businesses to do good by giving back. When was the last time you gave, freely Not for tax reasons. And not because you felt awkward at a raffle. We could all always do more.

Ann Hobbs Forward thinking publishing

Episode 33 – Ann Hobbs

Ann Hobbs helps people to self-publish their books with Forward Thinking Publishing. She is also a coach and author of her book ‘Kick ass your life’, helping people to push through adversity.

Kim-Adele Platts Career development coach

Episode 34 – Kim-Adele Platts

Kim-Adele Platts, Career Development Coach. Making Conversations about Leadership Count! If you don’t believe in yourself how do you expect others to? This was a question and topic that surfaced during this powerful and insightful conversation with Kim-Adele Platts.

Marina Hauer branding specialist for coaches

Episode 35 – Marina Hauer

Marina Hauer is a branding specialist for independent coaches. Are you using three different brand ‘voices’ in your marketing efforts? We’re making conversations about branding count!

David Smith MBE paralympian

Episode 36 – David Smith

David Smith MBE is a Paralympian in the sport Boccia. Do you know what Boccia is? David tells you in this episode all about the most inclusive Paralympian sport that helps people with their independence.

Graham Nash accountant

Episode 37 – Graham Nash

Graham Nash, BusinessWise Accountants, has worked in many fields over the years and the one common denominator has been helping business turnaround.

Ian Genius sales coach

Episode 38 – Ian Genius

Ian Genius is the sales coach to help you gain confidence in sales. His Ingenious technique helps clients see the value of your best package to COMMAND a higher price.

Jennie Erikson voice over artist

Episode 39 – Jennie Eriksen

Jennie Eriksen is a voice over artist, her company name is Lovely Voice. She helps her intended listener to learn by being able to bring characters to life.

Stella Da Silva employability trainer

Episode 40 – Stella Da Silva

Stella Da Silva talks about vocations in this episode, as a specialist employability trainer she shares her insider knowledge.
What skills do you need to be employable?

Hypnotist Jonathan Chase

Episode 41 – Jonathan Chase

Look into my eyes! You will feel very sleepy! You guessed it, we’re having one of our many conversations that count with hypnosis star Jonathan Chase.

Brynne Tillman social sales link

Episode 42 – Brynne Tillman

Brynne Tillman is a social selling expert. Her company ‘Social Sales Link’ teaches the importance of connection for selling on LinkedIn and other platforms.

Ruth Driscoll

Episode 43 – Ruth Driscoll

Ruth Driscoll supports people through toxic relationships. Her company the ‘life liberator’ takes her personal experiences to help others.

Rob Begg mindset coach

Episode 44 – Rob Begg

Rob Begg is a results based mindset coach to business leaders & teams. In this episode, he talks about your ego and self-limiting beliefs many of us hold.

Dan Knowlton video advertising

Episode 45 – Dan Knowlton

Dan Knowlton and his brother Lloyd run Knowlton – a social media and video advertising company who create unique, funny content to stop the scroll.

Sudhir Kumar

Episode 46 – Sudhir Kumar

Sudhir Kumar is an expert in social selling to grow your business, he’s written a book ‘Being Human: Marketing & Social Selling in a Digital World’.

Episode 47 – Ann Page

Ann Page is a lawyer who helps other lawyers with her courses. She teaches valuable business skills and teaches the importance of avoiding jargon.

Joe Chatham networking

Episode 48 – Joe Chatham

Joe Chatham set up USA 500. It’s an exclusive member-based organization focusing on sharing his expertise in marketing relationships and networking.

Larry Long Jnr

Episode 49 – Larry Long Jnr

Larry Long Jnr is a sales coach that helps give people, teams, and organizations the motivation to go from good to great.

pete cann laughter man

Episode 50 – Pete Cann

Larry Long Jnr is a sales coach that helps give people, teams, and organizations the motivation to go from good to great.

Hear what people are saying about the show

I love this podcast. The guests you have on all bring something new to the conversation and definitely thought-provoking.

Sometimes this means I change something I do, or something I would say, and other times it’s a real opportunity for reflection.

Thanks for sharing your guests with us Wendy, the podcasts are brilliant.

Paula Senior

I always enjoy listening to Wendy’s Making Conversations Count podcast and admire her talent for drawing out people’s stories and getting to the heart of things for finding out what makes them tick.

We all have pivotal moments and Wendy manages to find the right parts, showcasing the reasons why someone is who they are.

It’s those details that we connect to and come to more understanding of why people do what they do.

Heidi Medina

Love this podcast series. It’s a great idea to have a theme of ‘pivotal conversations’ and the variety of guests from massively different backgrounds keeps it fresh and interesting.

Wendy is a natural host and makes people feel at ease to share their stories.

Andrew Deighton

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