The science of using silence in sales calls and learning the real psychology of selling so you can avoid your revenue dying and create stunning profit reports!

Do you know how to get the best from your sales calls? You soon will.


How’s your knowledge of the O.C.E.A.N? We’re about to get some major insight into the art of using the real psychology of selling by using silence in sales calls!


After listening to or reading this episode you’ll definitely see improvement in your own sales call results!


We’re making conversations about silence in sales calls count, with Catherine Brown – Episode 93!


Ok, here’s the science part. 



Making Conversations about silence in sales calls Count poster

Who is Catherine Brown and what does she do?

Most people think of sales as a hard, fast-paced world where the only goal is to make a quick buck. However, Catherine Brown, Founder of ExtraBold Sales, is working to change that negative connotation. In her book “How Good Humans Sell: The Proven Path to B2B Sales Success”,

Catherine covers topics such as focusing on sales training within businesses, and taking your strategies to the next level with a need/want hierarchy. What we’re particularly interested in for the sake of this episode though, is her take on using the science of silence in sales calls. This is also a major focus of the book, as Brown believes that it is essential for salespeople to learn this particular skill.

With her helpful insight, any person or business involved in sales, will learn how to improve their sales processes and succeed in the long run from listening to this episode.

But this episode is not her book, and we couldn’t resist tapping her up for even more of her wonderful knowledge.

For instance, she talks us through some research on the Big Five personalities named O.C.E.A.N.

Ok cool. What is O.C.E.A.N?

It’s an acronym for Openness, Conscientiousness, Extraversion-Introversion, Agreeableness and Neuroticism.

She explains how some of that research bounces around within the sales dynamic, and how once you understand it, you can apply it to your own sales journey.


Scroll down to continue reading this episode in which Nicola Buckley shares how you can get working on finding your passion and purpose in life and business!

Pssst! Have you signed up yet? Wendy’s currently running a 12 week blueprint programme which outlines her ‘four R formula’. Want to overcome that fear of rejection or guide your teams towards having better conversations? Well, then you need to click on this 👇.

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Sign up now to make sure you don’t miss the opportunity to improve every aspect of your lead-generation.

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silence in sales calls

How has sales changed over the years?

Sales has always been about connecting with customers and understanding their needs, but the process has definitely evolved over the years. In the early days, sales was all about face-to-face interactions and building relationships. This was a slower process, but it resulted in more successful sales in the long run.

We talked all about this with previous guest Niraj.

Episode 22 – Niraj Kapur

How is selling different now then?

Nowadays, sales is often done over the phone or online, which can be a more difficult task.

It’s harder to build a rapport with someone when you’re not face-to-face, but it’s still possible to be successful.

One of the most important things to remember in sales is that your customer’s needs come first. If you can understand what they need and provide a solution, you’ll be successful.

But there’s a bit more to it than that, even still.

What if you know what they need, and can provide the solution, but you’re struggling to convey that solution to them?

And this is where the magic of using silence in sales calls really sparkles…




silence in sales calls 2

Let’s get bold and explore the real psychology of sales

Catherine’s brand is called “Extra Bold Sales” and she’s teaching people all about the simple mistakes they’re making that are killing their chances of making the sale.

In many cases, they’re easy fixes. But if you don’t know you’re committing these faux pas, you’re going to find it difficult to stop doing so.

We’ve talked about being bold before on the show, when we had Fred Joyal on.

How to be bold and confident and enjoy taking risks for infinitely more PRIDE in your life (and so you can meet Richard Branson)

And in that episode, in case you didn’t yet get a chance to listen yet (click above to do so), he talked about doing some pretty brave things in order to achieve your goals and dreams.

Not a million miles away, the ‘extra bold’ Catherine refers to is her ability to help a client reach their targets and really push through their limits, but without coming across as pushy or annoyingly aggressive.

Because believe it or not, even sales professionals themselves these days feel like sales people have become pushy and ’embarrassing’.

Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here.

Want to read the transcript right now? You can do so here.

Relevant quote from Catherine Brown as featured in the episode transcript

“My research shows that both business owners as well as the full time sales professionals they hire all, when polled anonymously, all will reveal that they feel that the sales profession is pushy and a little bit embarrassing and they are concerned about how they will be perceived in the sales process.

And I knew that would be true of the owner seller because entrepreneurs don’t start businesses to be the seller.

They can’t wait till they can hire a seller.

But the part that was very surprising to me and to me, important work as a contribution in the body of kind of what we know about sales now is that you can’t build a team where you don’t have some of this reluctance inside the team of people who volunteered and took this job of fulltime sales because there’s bad actors out there.

We all know that stereotype.

We all want to be perceived as a good human.

And so that disconnect between, gosh, I really think my product helps people, but I don’t want them to think I’m being too pushy.

That dissonance.

I believe almost everyone struggles with it.”


Watch the episode promo!

Managed to catch the previous episode yet? Click play on the player below to listen!

You had one job! Why don’t sales people actually want to sell?

There are many reasons why sales people struggle with selling, but one of the biggest reasons is that they don’t actually want to sell. They may think they do, but when it comes down to it, they don’t want to be, as Catherine puts it, ‘pushy’ or ‘aggressive’.

They may also find it difficult to build a rapport with their customers, and this can be a big obstacle in sales.

If you’re not able to connect with your customer and understand their needs, it’s going to be very difficult to sell them anything.

This is exactly where the science of silence in sales calls really comes into its own.

See, you’re understanding now why you really do need to listen to this episode and get Catherine’s tips, aren’t you?

Why wait?

Here it is.

Another point is that sales people may also struggle with self-doubt and lack of confidence.

This can be a big problem when it comes to sales because if you don’t believe in yourself, it’s going to be very difficult to sell anyone else on your product or service.

So those are some of the biggest reasons why sales people may not actually want to sell.

If you’re struggling with any of these issues, make sure you listen to this episode for some great tips from Catherine.

silence in sales calls 3

The big reveal! The science of silence in sales calls!

During the episode when Wendy presses Catherine on how listeners can really ramp up their sales performance, she offers some advice.

And it’s good advice…

(Relevant quote from the episode

“Well, I think I’ll take a side I think I’m going to say anyone who wants to become great at a craft and a profession needs to practice.

So it goes back to that earlier point we’re making about being open, constantly refining and testing ideas.

So I don’t think winging it.

Although there might be some aspects of developing relationships that are easier for some people than others.

I don’t think when it gets down to how many calls to make and understanding my KPIs and managing myself and running a call so that my prospect talks most of the time and I don’t do most of the talking because we need them to talk so we understand whether we can be helpful and they feel connected to us.

Those things take practice and so I’m going to fall on the practice side.

The question that often comes up in conversations that is similar to what you’re saying but not exactly what you’re saying that might still be interesting to your listeners is that sort of introversion extroversion question…”

…but the advice that follows is insanely good.

Oh yes. You totally want to know more about the introversion extroversion question, and how it leads to learning the science of using silence in sales calls, don’t you?

Great news.

You can. 

And Catherine also shares with us her incredible insight gleaned from spending a lot of time researching Audio only apps like Clubhouse, in order to ascertain what it was that made some speakers successful and how they stood out from those who weren’t.


You’ll learn….

This episode of “Making Conversations Count”, in which Catherine Brown shares how important it is to learn the science of silence in your sales calls, covers:

  • The evolution of sales
  • Catherine is another bold one and explains the real psychology of sales
  • Why sales people don’t want to sell
  • The science of silence in sales calls
  • Catherine’s conversation that counted and why she’s now grateful for rejection

Wendy shares her own process with training people on how to sell on the phone, and how she applies a “traditional framework with intuition” and a “holistic approach” to selling.


Wendy’s takeaway

Loved this conversation with Catherine and really enjoyed discussing the importance of using silence in sales calls to gain a power dynamic advantage.

It’s another episode that really helps business owners and entrepreneurs to solve a very real problem with some very actionable tips.

Salespeople may not want to sell because they struggle with self-doubt and lack of confidence, or because they find it difficult to understand their prospects.

Thanks to this conversation they’ll be able to apply the science of using silence in sales calls to help them focus on their prospects and understand their needs.

I also enjoyed sharing my own processes for training salespeople.

Catherine’s Links

Please do let us know your take-aways from this episode by leaving a comment at https;//

New to this site? Learn more about Making Conversations Count podcast:

“Making Conversations Count” is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.

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Dynamic read-along transcript

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Spoiler alert: want to read the conversation that counted in this episode about using the science of silence in sales calls with Catherine Brown?

You like to ruin the plot twist huh? OK, not judging. Here you are.


Kind of brings us to the part of the show where I always ask every guest about that one conversation that changed your life either personally or in business. So. Over to you, Catherine.



There’s so many that you could choose from. I have one that was a conversation of rejection and what I made that rejection mean and what it means to me now. So quick background on it. When I had my business to business telemarketing firm, which I had for 17 years, I developed strategic partnership relationships with a number of other kinds of firms. So if you were a management consulting firm, you would get in there and see when people needed sales calling help, so they would send me business. Or if you were a PR firm, people who might come to you for PR, you would say, you know, I’d love to sell your public relations help, but really you need more sales people. So I was constantly getting referrals, which was part of my strategy for my own selling right, was that people would make warm introductions for me and say, you can trust her and her team of sales callers, because that’s a real as you know, it’s a real thing to trust someone to sell for you. Well, there was a partner that I had who gave me so many referrals, and we did so much work together, back and forth of helping one another that we began to have conversations about actually merging our businesses. Or probably she was bigger than I was. Probably my vision was that she would buy me out in some way and that we would come together. And we had several conversations about this, and this was years ago, and I was really excited about that direction. And I got as far as getting a consultant to help me to put my books together, to really look at what evaluation would look like, and started going down this conversation path. And she ended up bringing in some advisors on her side who looked at my books, who looked at what they offered, what I offered, what I said I wanted, what she said she wanted. And in the end, this partner decided not to go forward. And I don’t want the partner to be embarrassed if they hear the podcast. So I’m going to be a little bit vague about it out of respect for them. But there was a conversation that really stands out in my mind. The way I remember it. That really felt very painful because I came away from that conversation feeling like they just didn’t perceive there’d be enough value to them by going forward. And that might not be what they said at all. I think what we’ve all learned with relationships, with people is what sticks with us sometimes has to do with us.



The story we tell ourselves.



That’s right. It’s not what they say, it’s what we think they said based on the filter that comes in. So truly, Wendy, I don’t know anymore because it was so many years ago, I don’t know what was really said because I cannot possibly remember it objectively, but what I took from it was, we don’t want to go forward. This isn’t a good fit for us and this isn’t valuable enough to us. And so I was just really crushed. And I look back now, I think probably disproportionately crushed. It was fine. I ended up regrouping and looking at what I really wanted and deciding what the next evolution of my business would look like. And it worked out great. It worked out fine. It was very painful at the time because that conversation and the way I received the words felt like a rejection. And I look back now and I think I did not trust myself and my own intuition and I was really kind of looking for a rescue of what my next version of my business would look like. I kind of created a story like if I go this direction, it will look like I’ve had a successful exit and then I’ll have a partner and then it’ll all turn out right. And really under a lot of it. I was a little bit unsure about what to do next. I felt insecure as a leader, so I was particularly crushed when it didn’t work out because it forced me to have this land in my lap and say, you have a business with people reporting to you. What are you going to do? Do you want to keep it? Do you not want to keep it? What is the next iteration look like? That was a painful business conversation to be rejected, to get pretty far down a possible merger acquisition conversation and then have them say that they didn’t want to go forward. It really stung at the time. But the lessons I took from that were that I learned for myself that I will often go look for a partner or look for someone that way because I feel scared. Because I feel nervous and so for me to invest in myself. To be a leader. To trust my own intuition. To get coaching. To get help. To ask for what I need to grow in the direction I need. I was forced to do that in that moment and I look back now and think I don’t think I was crazy for thinking we would be good partners. We shared a lot of the same clients so I know it was not a bad idea, it just wasn’t the right thing for them at that time and so for me to reframe that story and say what can I take from that? And recognize that that was really a gift because it revealed some things in my own personal professional development that I needed to work on. That’s what I take from it now and I don’t have any hard feelings and I see these great lessons that came from it even though it was somewhat painful.



No similar situation has arisen for me in the past where it’s those growing pains, isn’t it, that you have, and it can feel quite crushing but actually what you do take away is I am enough whilst I need to be bigger, bolder, stronger, whatever that adjective is the root cause of all of those things is you, isn’t it?



Yes and that you realise that everyone that you perceive who is so successful you realise they have advisors, they have strengths and weaknesses, they have things they do that scare them, they have things that are hard for them, they have ways, they need help, it’s just so easy and we can blame social media if we want, right? People put their best foot forward, they put themselves out there. I certainly try to put a good face out there that’s attractive. That will make people want to work with me and the reality is that everybody are people who have these issues and insecurities and these painful experiences will show you what’s really there and if you can learn from them then it was not a failure and you can grow and that kind of comes full circle to our earlier part of our conversation is that what can I take from it so that I go forward in my life and work on the areas that need attention to be the leader I want to be. And it was a little bit embarrassing and painful at the time and I really can think of them so fondly and say thank you for that experience now because enough time has passed.



That’s the benefit of hindsight, isn’t it? Looking back and going if that hadn’t happened, this wouldn’t have happened.



Because it really came out of my continuance of that was fairly early in my telemarketing business life and so I invested a number of more years in that business and it was actually the repeat things I learned from the clients that made me realise there is a gap in sales training material out there. No one is talking about beliefs as much as I think they should. Every client says, I just need more leads. If you get me in front of more people, I’ll be fine. It’s not true. And I needed more time to become convinced of those things. So that when I decided that I wanted to take a pivot in a different direction and focus more on training. I had such rich experiences that led to that. That built my confidence for me to say, there is an opportunity here. I can run a study, I can do the research, I can write the book, and I can show that this is a gap. And I probably needed, whatever it was another eight or ten years. I needed that for me to be where I am now. And I could never have foreseen that. I literally live in a different city. I love speaking at conferences. I’ve never done those things before. Those things all came later.



It’s the different opportunities that spur off one idea, isn’t it? And the seeds that you sow. I mean, I don’t know about you, Catherine, but I just see that we’re exactly where we’re meant to be right now. And I always say this to listeners is that if something just feels off, take a good look and see what that is. See if you can identify it. Because change is really in your control and nobody else’s.



Yes. And you can be 100% responsible and accountable for yourself. And learning to do that and learning how to listen and when to listen, I think that’s part of the journey. Some people weren’t trained to do that and were told they couldn’t trust themselves and so they have to learn to do that. I love to talk about all of these things, so I really particularly, Wendy, appreciate that question you ask at the end. It was a fun reflection to think what have been significant conversations that were a turning point for me. And so I really love how you run the podcast and I’m so glad that you asked me to be a guest. Thank you.



Thank you, Catherine. You’re just giving me goosebumps.



It’s really cool. I think your whole structure and energy for it is really cool. Thank you.



It’s been my pleasure, honestly, because I do watch what you’re doing and I just think that it’s fantastic. So when you reach out, listeners, please say Wendywoo sent you.



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Click this box to read the full Episode Transcript - Conversation around etiquette and manners - "Making Conversations Count"

Blaine Oelkers

You’ll read about:


You’ll hear:


Blaine and his TEDx Talk (1m02s)

Chief Results Officer? (3m47s)

Observations of business owners and entrepreneurs who struggle with results (12m19s)

Change doesn’t happen quickly enough but stick at it because it’s worth it! (23m25s)

Blaines’s conversation that counts (30m13s)


Blaine and his TEDx Talk (1m02s)


We all have these little idiosyncrasies that we like to hang on to... 21 seconds... an hour. If I was to say to my daughter, you've got all day to tie to your bedroom, guess what? It takes her all day to tidy her bedroom. So it's got to be the same in business. If you tell me I've only got 20 minutes to do something, I'll get it done with spare time!



Yes. Everything from when people argue for the limitations they get to keep them, to it's the lens that you look through that actually creates your life. So I call it the lens of the future, but that is so key. And then finding practical ways to program the subconscious mind to help you. Right. I did a TEDx Talk where I asked people to change the unlock screen on their phone. And so now, for years, I've been getting great feedback from people saying that made a big difference in their life. So whatever you're trying to bring about, you put that on your unlock screen. You can also have your family stuff, and then you can make a customized image. But many people have nothing. They have, like, the default unlock screen, which is interesting, but you see that screen, you unlock your phone 60 to 150 times a day. So it's a real strong way to keep putting what you want to bring about, what you think about what you bring about. It's a way to program that subconscious, but it's super powerful, and you're so right. That how you see it creates the reality. And if people get that, that's a big breakthrough.



Confession time. I did the unlock screen on my phone, and it was a picture of myself in actual fact, when I felt that I looked the best, I was slimmer, no Covid pounds. And it has been working because initially I was looking at it and thinking, this is I really don't like this. But it has had an impact. It's changed with what I eat, the what I drink, the getting up and moving more. So I'd say to anybody, just give it a try!




Yeah. Agreed. A lot of this stuff is self evident. Just try it for a little while. And you may not see it consciously, but your subconscious mind is still seeing it. And maybe you change it. Maybe you turn it to the side or you add some words to it. You can also kind of mix it up. I like to mix mine up every couple of weeks, but it's having the same core thing on there,


Chief Results Officer? (3m47s)



No, it is interesting. So what got you to become the chief Results officer then, Blaine?



So, for me, there were two moments of dawning comprehension where the world changes almost on a single thought. And for me, the first one came in college. I went to Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana, and I've always been kind of maybe like you and the listeners. I've been a little bit of a seeker, a seeker of knowledge. How can I do better? What could I do better? And so I saw this ad for an audio cassette tape. So I'm kind of dating myself. This was back in the 80s, but when I went to college and I sent away for this audio cassette, which was an abridged version of "Think and Grow Rich", it was actually this guy Earl Nightingale reading "Think and Grow Rich". And I got that audio tape, and then I subsequently purchased the book, and I realised there that "Think and Grow Rich". Now, the book is about Think and Grow Rich, but the riches can be anything. It could be financial, he talks about that, but it could be harmonious relationships, your health. And that's where this concept of what you think about you bring about. That was where I first got that. And I realized, now, wait a second, I'm in a lot more control than I realized. And I had a lot of success because of that initial reading of that book. And actually, I met my wife. We've been married 30 years, so I met her.






Yes. That was kind of the first thing that started me on the journey there and started kind of taking control of myself a little bit more. But then the big change, the big dawning comprehension moment number two. I came back from a business trip, my degree's in computer science, I was working as a software engineer, and I came back from this long business trip, and my son Beau, he was one year old, and he was, like, giving me the cold shoulder when I came back. And I said, hey, Beth, what's going on? What's wrong with Beau here? And she said, well, you were gone so long, he kind of forgot who you were. And I was like, what? I mean, that hit me emotionally pretty hard at night. And I realized when I was a kid, I'd come home to an empty house. Both my parents worked. And so that night I had this moment of dawning comprehension, and I made a clarifying decision. Now, when you make a clarifying decision, it kind of like, cuts out a lot of other decisions, cuts out a lot of noise and really focuses you almost like a laser on one thing. And that decision was that I was going to be a work from home dad. And so it took me a year. It took me a year to get there because we were kind of conservative and wanted to save up enough money and have living expenses in the bank. But anyway, a year later, my wife said, if you can make more on your side hustle thing, whatever you're doing here from home, and you make more money at that than you do from the job or even the same, then you can go, you can cut away the job. So I did that. So it took me a year, but I did that and I left my job. And that was 27 years ago. And so for the last 27 years, I've been working from home, running businesses that really have no daily operations. So I've been able to do a lot of self development and that's what led me on the course to become the Chief Results Officer. I started helping people. I created a company called Selfluence, which is really kind of the art and science of influencing yourself. But more than that, it's the power that you already have to influence yourself. You don't need any special software, you don't have to buy anything else. You have it all kind of within you. And I started helping a lot of mastermind groups and they said, hey, you're helping us get results every week. We're going to call you the Chief Results Officer. I'm like. Oh, I like that. So I like the title. I took the title and then I went to the US Patent Office and I registered the title. So now I can say I'm America's only Chief Results officer. But anyway, I've been doing that and I think that's why I'm here. I think God has me on the planet to help people take control of their lives by taking control of themselves. So that's what I've been doing. Now, pretty much 27 years from home, kids are out of the nest now, so I have a lot more time to serve clients than I did before, but I really do enjoy it.



What a benefit for Beau, really? And gosh, we say this so often on this show is that there are things that you can do that can help and aid us, but ultimately it comes back to self. It doesn't matter. So you're saying that you decided to do something. Reminds me of Rob Begg who's a past guest as well. He's also a mindset expert and he says if you decide, you've also got to commit and that's effectively what you've done. So there's a lot of entrepreneurs out there that I think they decide that they're going to work for themselves, but they don't commit. Do you see that it goes hand in hand?



I do. And I think there's a third component, and that is the action right there. There's a famous joke. Three birds are sitting on a tree, one decides to fly off. How many birds are left? And the audience typically says two, but no three. One made a decision, but they didn't fly off, they didn't take the action right. So I think what you think about, you bring about that. It's a combination of you make the decision right, and then you need to commit to that decision, but your commitment shows up in action. And so it's the action steps you take that kind of determine if it's real or not. And I will say that many decisions and desires kind of die on the vine because they're not strong enough for that person. And you can tell they're not strong enough if they don't want to wake up early, stay up late, and really put the action behind it. Right? And that's where you see the people really begin to move forward, because it's even taking the action. Even if you're going in the wrong direction, at least you're moving. They say you can't steer a parked car. You got to be moving. You got to take action. And it's in the action that really you kind of learn more about it, and then it can either grow, or you might realize that you're heading in the wrong direction. But that's okay, because it's in the knowing of where you're going. That's the fun part. And I like to tell people, you can't change your destination overnight, but you can change your direction. So if you figure out where you want to go, you can point in that direction and then start to move there. But in turning and facing, like, whatever it is you really want in life, you're going to feel the energy chemically. You're going to get excited about it, you're going to feel it.



It's a bit like stepping out into the sunshine, isn't it, and feeling it on your face. It is that much of an impact. But that's great course correction, isn't it? If we have these navigation systems built in, we are also tied to the magnetic force. So why do you think we have moved away so far from what comes naturally to us? Blaine, what's your take on that?



When you can get back to these core things? It feels good, it feels right. But today, more so than any time in the history of the world, is that there are so many distractions, and the level of distractions are so high. And everybody that I know has one of these, which is a smartphone, a cell phone. And so that can be like the greatest tool of productivity or the most evil distraction machine known to man or woman. For me, it's the level of distractions number one, and the loss of think time. That would probably be number two. Of time where you are... it's almost like more shower time, where there's no phones, there's no electronics, there's no outside world. People need more of that. I tell them, your phone has airplane mode. That's not just for airplanes. You can use it during the week, too. But I think lack of Think Time and distractions are the two things that pull you away, maybe even from who you are, who you want to be, your self development. So switching, that is possible, right? So switching, removing distractions. Right. So my family isn't super happy about it, but I've removed all the rings. Dings and dings. My phone never rings. If I'm expecting a call, maybe I'll look for that. But typically, I never answer the phone, and I've really cut down the distractions, number one. And then number two is I put a lot of think time back into my day and into my life and I think that makes a big difference.


Observations of business owners and entrepreneurs who struggle with results (12m19s)



What's your observation then, Blaine, of working with entrepreneurs and business owners that are struggling with that productivity and getting the results that they need? What's the first place that you sort of get them to be doing something slightly different?



I serve primarily business owners and the number one problem is overwhelm. Too many things to do and they're typically a day behind or more than a day behind things. And so what I like to do is first of all, show them that there is something to go after and I call it a day ahead. And so I like to take entrepreneurs from being a day behind to just being behind to being caught up, to being ahead to being a day ahead. And there is this thing, I call it the day ahead lifestyle which I live most days now, not every day, but most days I'm a day ahead. So when I wake up there may be some appointments like this podcast, but all the to-do's are done. Like I have no to-do's for the day and I'm working on tomorrow's to-do's. And so this concept of moving into that just first of all know that it's possible to be a day ahead. And my wife is back in school now getting a master's degree and she likes to be a week or two weeks ahead on homework and other things so you can get there. But the first thing is you've got to handle the overwhelm. And so typically what I see that works the best is to do some kind of a mind dump of all these things that you have to do. Now if you just do a mind dump alone, you're going to be more overwhelmed but guide them through. So get out a piece of paper and start to write down what are all the things that are top of mind. They're swimming around, oh, I've got to do this for this client or I got to do that. I've got these appointments, I've got to do this with the products, whatever it is. You have all these things swimming around and write all those things down and spend at least 15 minutes doing that and then take maybe a five minute break and then come back, maybe go a little bit deeper. Also, sometimes I provide a lot of prompts, a lot of questions to kind of pull more and more stuff out of your head and get it on paper. So the last time I did that in a big way, I ended up with 453 items on my list.






Super overwhelming. Look out. Yikes. But the key is that you must immediately process the list. So it's in the immediate processing of the list that the overwhelm begins to subside. Because what I mean by processing the list is that you put an end next to things you can do now, something that takes less than five minutes. If it's a bigger project, I also say, look, why don't you write to the right of it? What's the next step on that? It might just be scheduled meeting with so and so, send somebody an email, something that's quick and fast. But you write an N next to those things that you can do now, and then you write an S next to things that need to be scheduled. They need to be done in the next, let's say, a week or so. And then D is next to things that you can delegate, you can give to someone else. Not that you're going to do it, but you could do it. It's possible to delegate. And then L, which should be the most used letter of all, stands for later. And those are things that are not pressing, let's say, in this week. Now, sometimes people do it just for the day. Like, what am I going to do today? Some people might do it for a month or a quarter. But one of those things that you can let go a little bit, you can put on the later list. And most of the time, like out of my 400, I don't know, probably 300, something of those were later items. But they're out of my head now and they're on paper. And then what happens is then you go after you take maybe 30 minutes and do a bunch of the Ns, get a little... start winning the battle of the brain chemicals, get the dopamine going, the serotonin, you're getting stuff done, you're moving forward. Then the bigger ones, you schedule those into your calendar, maybe you see what the next small step is again, win early, win often. And that starts to get them out of the overwhelm and get them into kind of high value, productive action. That's one thing I do. The other thing is that all entrepreneurs and business owners, most people, want to compress time. And so I do have a framework called the 30 Minutes Hour. It's how to get an hour's worth of stuff done in just 30 minutes. So sometimes I walk them through that framework as well, because if they can compress time, they're winning.



Yeah, there's a lot about what you've said there that comes back to feeling in control of the situation, isn't it? And thinking is just energy, isn't it? You've got all these thoughts and they're just randomly popping in and out of your attention span... by putting them down on paper makes perfect sense because you can look and it not take up your attention of worrying about it because you've already decided how you're going to do something with it. Is it next? Is it later? Is it a big thing? But it frees your energy up to be laser focused on the tasks that you really do need to do. And there's just that feeling of striking off things off your list, isn't there? That satisfaction of done that, done that... the fact that you've gotten to the end of a list is an achievement itself. But getting into the habit of doing that on a daily basis, that's got to be where the results are coming from.



Yes, you're exactly right about those open loops and all that thing that's swimming around in your head that you have to keep remembering, right? And when you get rid of those things now you've got some more room, some more capacity and you even feel better, like you said. And then also you're right about the checking off the list. A lot of times I'll ask business owners, have you ever done something and it's not on your list but you write it on your list so you could check it off? We've all kind of done that. But that gives us the dopamine that like physically shows up. You get a little square of dopamine in your brain and it feels good. Your body, your mind, it wants you to get stuff done, right? So it rewards that. So you are right. And a lot of it is how you think and what you think about you bring about and how you think makes all the difference and actually changes your reality. I call it the lens of the future. But how you say or say to yourself or how you think the prediction of the future is going to go, that is what you're going to end up creating, right? So the story I like to tell about that is let's say that I say, Wendy, look, I'm sorry but today is going to be one of the worst days of your life. And so then you go out and you're like, I don't know if Blaine's right or not. And then you're almost hit by a car and you say, wow, look, Blaine was right. I was almost hit by the car and you're shaking and you're like, oh my, what else is going to happen? And physically, brain chemical wise and physically, you get scared and you kind of get small and you're worried about the rest of the day right? Now if the same morning I said to you, Wendy, today is going to be one of the best days of your life. You're looking through a different lens but the same thing happens. You're almost hit by the car and you go, well Blaine was right. I was saved. Like, why was I saved? God still has something for me to do on this planet. I'm still here. And then you're exuberant. Now there's a little fear from the accident almost happening but right out of that you come up and you're not down, you're up. And the brain chemicals and your physiology is all like, this is a great day, what else is going to happen? Great. And so the same circumstances happened, but you created the reality based on the lens that you're looking through, and that is some of the biggest brain science and discoveries that are happening now is that you create that world based on that lens. So have you found that to be true in your...



Yeah, all the time. For me it comes down to language and it can be habitual. It's conditioned what we pick up from other people. You know that saying of who you surround yourself with, if that's negative, then that brings you down. I'm a positive kind of person in the main and it's hard if you're the only positive person sort of bringing the negative people up as well. So yeah, for me it's an energy thing. Everything is around energy and if you use the wrong language, it's like saying, oh, I nearly got hit by a car, but Blaine said it was a good day. You go, my luck was in and yet, it's got absolutely nothing to do with that. So it reminds me a little bit of the Matrix movie series that literally you can design the life that you want. How badly do you want it?



Yeah, agreed. And you're right about the people you hang around with. And I'm all for helping people, but I don't like maybe a third of the time I can be around people that are, let's say, at a lower frequency and have issues and I want to help them. And then a third of the time I like to be around people kind of my own energy level. And then another third of the time though, I want that higher energy. Right. I want to be kind of like you said, moving up and it can be tough. The other thing is if you're stuck in that lower energy or in that I call it head trash...



It's a good term.



Yeah, everybody has head trash. Now, my head trash, because I do a lot of things, is small and it's in the corner, but it's still there. And actually I do this thing called a mind shower every morning to kind of take the head trash out. But I like to tell people who are stuck with a lot of head trash that the solution to pollution is dilution. So if you ever see like if there's a liquid, a dark liquid in a beaker, the more clear water they add, it'll get less and less and less and less and soon it will be clear. What I find is the ratio is different for everybody. Like I need maybe a five to one ratio. So if I have 1 hour around negative people and bad things, I need 5 hours of positive. I got to pour in the positive to dilute down that negative. But realize that it is a bit of a battle, but like you said, what are you pouring in? Who are the people you around? What are you listening to? What are you watching? What foods are you eating? That all has energy and vibration, too. So you can really pour in so much of the higher vibration stuff that it does begin to minimize and kind of there's this little point where it'll flip over and you'll feel like you're in control of those thoughts rather than those thoughts and that negativity being in charge of you.


Change doesn’t happen quickly enough but stick at it because it’s worth it! (23m25s)



And you're right, really. That energy, the dark water into the clear, that's like recharging a battery, isn't it? When you need to go and find some positive to sort of just, you know... and I would say that people give up too soon. You can be adding clear water in and adding positivity into that dark water. And it could just be that you're just frustrated that the change is not happening quick enough. Please just stick at it because it's worth it.



Yeah, it is worth it. And realize that there's some people that will pour the dark ink back in the water, right? So you have to start to guard the inputs of your life, guard the inputs of your brain and your body. Because sometimes people don't even mean to do it. It's unconscious to them, but they are negative towards you or low energy.. so yeah keep pouring the positive and keep pouring it in big doses. I remember my favorite mentor is this guy Jim Rohn... I don't know if you remember...



Yeah, I know Jim Rohn.



Yeah, he's my favorite guy. I got to meet him and host him at an event one time and for him, he had this series, it's called The Power of Ambition, which I listened to on audio cassettes. Again, back to the dating myself. But I listened to that program 50 times in a row because I was at a point in my life where that's what I needed and I could finish the sentences of that program, but that's what I needed. That's what I needed to really get through some tough times. I mentioned before that I broke free from my job. But if you realize at that point we had a one year old son, I had a 50 hours week job and I started two other businesses at the same time. I mean, my marriage almost didn't make it through that year. So now we made it through that year and many others. But there are times where you got to lean into something, leaning into a mentor or whatever that positive thing is for you. But today there's so much available online and through things like and podcasts like this, I mean, fantastic stuff that you can be pouring in that positive on a constant basis and you can do it at the same time as doing something else, right? You're driving in the car, pour in the positive. You're exercising poor in the positive, doing household chores pouring the positive. My wife and I were cleaning this weekend, and I was listening to a book on tape and just pouring in the positive.



Yeah, no, Neal, the producer, he'll be laughing at this now because he basically says, Wendy, in your world, there is no room for excuses. And there isn't really, because I understand that people can get into a position or a situation and not realize that they've gotten there, but there is always something that you can do to get yourself out of that. There are no excuses.



I like to say, when I lost my excuses, I found my results. That's a little quote I like to say. And you're right. And the other thing people need to be clear on is it's all about you compared to you, not you compared to other people. Now, if you want to change your happiness, you can compare yourself. Right. So if my ego is getting too big, then my wife can say, well, how much money does Oprah make every year? Okay? Yeah. I'm very small. But the opposite is also true, is if I'm feeling down, my wife can say, how many of your friends have no job and the freedom that you have. Right. In that comparison, you can regulate your happiness, but for your results, it is best to compare you to you. Right. Let's just better your best. And for me, this definition of success is kind of you moving towards your goal, whatever that is. So it's very personal, whatever that personal goal is. And if you find yourself in this situation, you can begin to move out of that situation and celebrate just maybe those first steps out of that situation. Right, so you're comparing yourself to you. So, yes, you can change direction overnight, and then you can begin to make measurable progress in a reasonable amount of time as compared to where you are. Right. And so, yeah, I think that's a valid point on happiness. And then also, no excuses for you getting better. Now you're human, so you're going to have bad days. That's right. But you just want to ride again, get back on the horse, ride again, and ride a little bit better. Figure out some way that you can ride a little bit better. So you go a little bit longer and you get a little bit closer to where you want to be and who you want to be.



And like you said at the very beginning, Blaine, growing rich and success is not necessarily about numbers in a bank balance. It can be how you want to live and who you want to live that with. Your reasons why.



Yes. Maslow's hierarchy of needs is there. I mean, you need a certain amount of money for food and shelter and those things, and if you're struggling there, then there's a lot of help. Right? I mean, the Internet, podcasts like this, books like Think and Grow Rich, there's a lot of resources there. But you have to take the step like you have to have the desire and then, as we said earlier, make the decision, commit to the decision, but then take some action behind that decision. Right. And when you feed the decision with action, then you're going to find out, is this really something good for me or not? And most people find that it is. And then they start moving forward. And then it's funny that when you start moving forward, it's kind of a little slow and slogging in the beginning, but as you get out of the mud and you get out of that and you start to go faster and faster and faster, typically then things start to move really fast. That's exciting as I see that in people when they adopt, say, a new habit and then all of a sudden now everything else in their life is kind of taking off.



It is just about making that start. If you make the start, you're already ahead of where you were.





Blaines’s conversation that counts (30m13s)



It seems only right, really, at this juncture, to ask you about a conversation that created a turning point for you. I've got a feeling that it may link to what you were talking about with your career change and things like that, but you might surprise me because of course I never know what's coming next.



That's exciting.



So what was that one conversation that changed your life either for business or for personal?



It started as a conversation and changed my life. And that was actually Jim Rohn. And so Jim Rohn, a friend of mine, introduced me to Jim Rohn and then I was able to actually host him at an event I was running. And I got lucky because he had a house in the Phoenix area and this event was in Phoenix and he happened to be there. So it was very easy for him to come to this event. And so he came to that event and I got to hear him and share the stage with him. But the things that he said that evening had a big impact on me. Right. And one of the things he says is it's not what happens that determines your life future, it's what you do about what happens. And that was the beginning of kind of the lens conversation as well. But he said that, so it's not what happens that determines your life future, it's what you do about what happens. And I realized in that moment, I realized that I didn't have to worry about circumstances, the economy, the pandemics, and all these different things that's going to happen to everybody actually. But it's my response to what happens that determines the outcome of my life and my businesses. And then he went on to say the other thing he said that night was don't wish it was easier, wish you were better. And I was like, Whoa, that was big. Don't wish for less problems, wish for more wisdom. And he just got me to switch it to see that praying and begging for things to be better or easier, that was just going to fix the thing one time. If I increased my wisdom and I got better, that's going to increase everything for the rest of my life. And so that started me on a nice trajectory. But it was that conversation that night with Jim Rohn that I think led me to this course of becoming the Chief Results Officer. Now, having the time to do that with my son. Having the inputs was the "Think and Grow Rich" book. But it was that conversation that night. He also said, profits are better than wages. And I was like, oh, poof, I've got to do more of my own business. So that was it.



Wow. I know, previous guest Brad Sugars, he was influenced by Jim in a big way, and he talked about that on the show as well. Isn't it interesting, because we've already kind of touched on this, that just by switching your language out just changes the end results of what you want to be creating.



Agreed. And a couple of years ago, I read this one book called The One Thing by a guy named Keller, and in there he said and some people say different ways he says, when you argue for your limitations, you get to keep them. It was just that language right there. That's where I realized, now, wait a second, let me say that again. Let me hear that for real. When you argue for your limitations, you get to keep them. And so what happened is that was the trigger for me kind of processing my own language, right? So if I start to say, I'm too old, I'm too this, I'm too that, I can't this, I can't that, won't all that almost negative kind of self talk. And it was on big things and small things, I realized it was almost like the predefeated mind, I'm never going to try that thing, because I've just accepted that limitation. And then I started hearing that language in other people, and now I can't go anywhere without hearing people arguing for their limitations all the time. But it's gotten so good in our family or in some businesses, masterminds that I work with, they'll say, oh, now Blaine is going to say you're arguing for your limitations there. But that consciousness around what you say is so big, and that can be kind of that pivotal point in your life, is when you start to listen to and process that self talk. That's big.



Yeah. Awareness. Self awareness. It can be a real driving force... or not. Well, thank goodness for Jim Rohn. Honestly. Thank you, Blaine, for sharing your story and so many different productivity hacks that we can apply to our own business and go away. I'm going to just go and sort out my mind trash later. I got to do another dump.



And I will say, look... on the head trash. The thing that has helped me the most and my clients is really that concept of the mind shower. Meaning like most people take a physical shower every day, but how often do you take a Mind Shower where you kind of wash out your mind and take out the head trash? Now there's apps. I use an app called Headspace, kind of a meditation breathing app, but I do that every single day. And I've done that now because the app tracks like 1500 days in a row. I've done this Mind Shower, just a little thing like that. Now I like a ten minute Mind Shower, but if I don't have time, I'll do a three minute Mind Shower. But doing that, I do that first thing in the morning, every morning. And that's made a big difference because I feel like at the beginning of the day, I'm kind of taking control of my mind showering it out, cleaning it out a little bit, but then also getting that lens ready for the day to make the most from the day.



Yes, it fits with your computer science background as well. It's almost like you're defragging the system and every day just hit reset. And then that head trash writing everything down in such a big overwhelm. It's not going to be that big anymore, is it? Because you've already got a handle on it, right?






I've had an absolute blast. I know who to reach out to now when I need either some head trash or a Mind Shower. Thank you.



I have thoroughly enjoyed this and I just want to take a moment to thank you. This is not easy to put all this stuff together and put it online and you have a big results ripple, queen of conversations here. You have a big results ripple and I will bet that you are touching lives not yet born that somebody 20 or 30 years from now is going to find this stuff and it's going to make a difference. So I want to congratulate you on that and leave you with this. That the bad news. The bad news is time flies. The good news, you're the pilot. So pilot well.



Thank you. I've got to go and cry now.



Want to listen to the audio version? In a place with limited downloads?

Click here to listen to a lower bandwidth version of the full episode:

Blaine Oelkers– lower bandwidth version

TL;dr - want the episode summarised in one paragraph, and in your own language? Here is it.

ENGLISH: “Openness to ideas as well as learning, not insisting on being right and being open to literally discoveries that are being made, is really high value of mine. It’s a really high value. And I’m attracted to people who I perceive are that way. And I don’t want to work with people who are not open because you’re just beating your head against the wall. But I would say, of course, no consultant really wants to do that, right? No one wants to step into working with someone who doesn’t really want to change. But I think it’s a particular high value. Like, it really gets under my skin when I find out that someone actually is quite fixed and is perfectly content with where they are, and is not on a journey in every respect to get better and keep learning. I don’t understand that. It’s a value of mine..”


إن الانفتاح على الأفكار بالإضافة إلى التعلم ، وعدم الإصرار على الصواب والانفتاح على الاكتشافات التي يتم إجراؤها حرفياً ، هو حقًا قيمة عالية لي. إنها قيمة عالية حقًا. وأنا منجذب إلى الأشخاص الذين أرى أنهم بهذه الطريقة. ولا أريد العمل مع أشخاص غير منفتحين لأنك فقط تضرب رأسك بالحائط. لكنني أقول ، بالطبع ، لا يوجد مستشار يريد فعل ذلك ، أليس كذلك؟ لا أحد يريد أن يتدخل في العمل مع شخص لا يريد التغيير حقًا. لكنني أعتقد أنها قيمة عالية بشكل خاص. على سبيل المثال ، يصبح الأمر حقًا تحت بشرتي عندما اكتشفت أن شخصًا ما ثابت تمامًا في الواقع وأنه راضٍ تمامًا عن مكان وجوده ، وليس في رحلة من جميع النواحي للتحسن والاستمرار في التعلم. أنا لا أفهم ذلك. إنها قيمة خاصة بي

SPANISH: La apertura a las ideas así como al aprendizaje, no insistir en tener razón y estar abierto literalmente a los descubrimientos que se están haciendo, es un gran valor para mí. Es un valor realmente alto. Y me atraen las personas que percibo que son así. Y no quiero trabajar con gente que no está abierta porque simplemente te estás golpeando la cabeza contra la pared. Pero yo diría, por supuesto, que ningún consultor realmente quiere hacer eso, ¿verdad? Nadie quiere entrar a trabajar con alguien que realmente no quiere cambiar. Pero creo que es un valor particularmente alto. Realmente me molesta cuando descubro que alguien en realidad es bastante fijo y está perfectamente contento con el lugar donde está, y no está en un viaje en todos los aspectos para mejorar y seguir aprendiendo. no entiendo eso es un valor mio”




FRENCH: L’ouverture aux idées ainsi qu’à l’apprentissage, ne pas insister pour avoir raison et être littéralement ouvert aux découvertes qui sont faites, est une valeur très élevée pour moi. C’est une valeur très élevée. Et je suis attiré par les gens que je perçois comme ça. Et je ne veux pas travailler avec des gens qui ne sont pas ouverts parce que vous ne faites que vous cogner la tête contre le mur. Mais je dirais, bien sûr, qu’aucun consultant ne veut vraiment faire ça, n’est-ce pas ? Personne ne veut travailler avec quelqu’un qui ne veut pas vraiment changer. Mais je pense que c’est une valeur particulièrement élevée. Par exemple, cela me touche vraiment quand je découvre que quelqu’un est en fait assez fixe et parfaitement satisfait de l’endroit où il se trouve, et qu’il n’est pas en voyage à tous égards pour s’améliorer et continuer à apprendre. Je ne comprends pas ça. C’est une de mes valeurs...

GERMAN: Offenheit für Ideen und Lernen, nicht darauf zu beharren, Recht zu haben, und offen zu sein für buchstäblich gemachte Entdeckungen, ist ein wirklich hoher Wert von mir. Es ist ein wirklich hoher Wert. Und ich fühle mich zu Menschen hingezogen, von denen ich wahrnehme, dass sie so sind. Und ich möchte nicht mit Leuten arbeiten, die nicht offen sind, weil man nur mit dem Kopf gegen die Wand rennt. Aber ich würde sagen, das will natürlich kein Berater wirklich, oder? Niemand möchte mit jemandem zusammenarbeiten, der sich nicht wirklich ändern möchte. Aber ich denke, es ist ein besonders hoher Wert. Es geht mir wirklich unter die Haut, wenn ich herausfinde, dass jemand eigentlich ziemlich fixiert und vollkommen zufrieden ist mit dem, wo er ist, und nicht in jeder Hinsicht auf einer Reise ist, um besser zu werden und weiter zu lernen. Ich verstehe das nicht. Es ist ein Wert von mir..



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John Attridge capacity business

Episode 12 – John Attridge

John Attridge – Guiding Businesses to Reach their Full Potential by Tapping into Spare Capacity

Making Conversations about Capacity Count. John Attridge, owner of BBX turns spare capacity into value for many businesses. When you listen to John you just know there is a bigger story to this guy as his accent gives it away!
John has successfully built a business network and community to help people fill spare capacity and exchange services. It is a brilliant concept and if you’ve not come across it before yet in touch with me and I’ll tell you more. Using the BBX community helped my own business through the lockdown and has provided such a lot of support and new relationships.

Clara Wilcox return to work coaching for parents

Episode 13 – Clara Wilcox

Clara Wilcox runs The Balance Collective, Specialising in Return to Work Coaching for Parents. Making Conversations about Returning to Work Count! This is a conversation that every Mum will resonate with, juggling home and work is not simply a balancing act but a superpower!

Clara recognized through her own personal journey that the right support for Mum’s returning to work was only available from the employer’s point of view. This causes a biased approach and is not always helpful in an emotive decision-making process.

dr ivan misner bni networking

Episode 14 – Dr Ivan Misner

In this episode, Ivan and Wendy explore how conversation is the foundation of all growth and learning. How times have changed, looking back and also predicting our future generations experiences, yet communication will still be the underpin even it how that looks has changed.

Janine Coombes marketing coach

Episode 15 – Janine Coombes

Google has recognised this lady as the #1 marketing coach and her video series mixes humour with key messages, it is the lovely Janine Coombes. Janine is a marketing coach for personal brands.
In this episode, Janine and Wendy share how using the right language influences the conversations we have and how it affects our results.

Lizzie Butler presentations coach

Episode 16 – Lizzie Butler

Making conversations about presentations count! Delighted to introduce Lizzie Butler, owner of LB Communications, who met Wendy at a local online networking event and immediately hit it off. Lizzie helps you to grow your business through personal development training and how to achieve brilliant communication.

Jem hills inspirational speaker

Episode 17 – Jem Hills

Making conversations about Bullying count. Jem Hills is an inspirational speaker, trainer & performance coach.
Talking to Wendy in this episode is ex-marine Jem Hills who you might find it hard to believe was affected by bullying and a lack of confidence. As a release Jem discovered Northern dancing and practiced as a bedroom activity that later led to an accidental release of freestyle dancing at a competition. The dancing-built resilience and the foundations for the training to complete the Mud Run and onto his Elite Special Forces career.

Peter howard graphic design

Episode 18 – Peter Howard

Peter Howard runs a design studio that is ranked in the top 100 in the country and was responsible for the WAG brand. Having known Peter and his team for many years, Wendy has heard lots of his stories but knew there would be one she had not heard before.

Taz Thornton & Asha Clearwater business coaches

Episode 19 – Taz Thornton & Asha Clearwater

Making conversations about partnerships count. In a Making Conversations Count first, we are joined by two dynamic guests in this episode. Both Taz & Asha provide business coach services in different areas. Joining Wendy chatting about all the elements that make up a great debate. You are not going to want to miss the observations with Taz Thornton and Asha Clearwater around questioning, opinions, debate and discernment that makes for wonderful colourful conversations.

Vicki Carroll O'Neill

Episode 20 – Vicki Carroll (formerly O’Neill)

Vicki works with entrepreneurs, small business owners and executive leaders who are stuck in their business and need someone as a partner to coach them to their next level of success. Vicki offers growth marketing consultant advice, strategy plans & also organises in-house marketing teams.

heidi medina business coach

Episode 21 – Heidi Medina

This episode contains one of our most important conversations, so we’re definitely going to make it count!
Wendy Harris brings Heidi Medina into the conversation today, who opens up the conversation about abuse she has encountered.
She’s a Linkedin expert and business coach who is the exact opposite of the classic ‘my way or the highway’.
Whether you meet Heidi online or in person she is the same.

Niraj Kapur online sales coach

Episode 22 – Niraj Kapur

In this episode, Wendy is joined by Online Sales Coach Niraj Kapur from “Everybody works in Sales” a business that helps companies with their sales processes.

Steve Judge paralympian motivational speaking

Episode 23 – Steve Judge

A life-changing accident that almost claimed a life but actually birthed a mindset shift.  Making conversations about speaking count!

Imagine losing your limbs in an accident.

That’s a real human test.

Most people would fall into one of two camps.

Feel the loss, and struggle to overcome it, before essentially accepting your ‘job lot’ and just becoming a bit angry.

Many would. And they’d be forgiven.

Then there are others, who would not let it defeat them, or define them.

Steve Judge is definitely in the latter of the two camps.

Nikolas Venios the ideas agency

Episode 24 – Nik Venios

We reflect on how this business man helped his poorly mother solve a household challenge which led to a career of making conversations about ideas and innovation count. We will all eventually lose our parents. Sadly, it’s a part of life. Not many of us have to suffer that loss at the tender age of just six. We couldn’t think of a nicer guy to help us with our goal of making conversations about ideas count. Truly, if anyone can hold a conversation about ideas, it’s Nik Venios of the Ideas Agency. Did you know that NASA has a genius test? During this episode, you’ll find out all about this, and the fascinating stats surrounding it.

Jonny cooper hates marketing

Episode 25 – Jonny Cooper

Most business owners hate marketing. That’s probably because they don’t understand it. Someone who does get marketing is Jonny Cooper, and even he can’t stand it! In fact, he despises it so much, he built a business around it. Welcome to Jonny Hates Marketing! This week we’re making conversations about messaging count. Messaging is so important to get correct. Your entire marketing voice depends on it. That’s why you need to listen very carefully to Jonny Cooper.

Wendy Harris telephone trainer how to sell over the phone

Episode 26 – Wendy Harris

Wendy Harris is an expert telemarketer, who has years worth of experience in cold-calling and doing it right. Now a podcast host, Wendy shares her story and how she became an advocate for making conversations count!

Will Polston Make it happen

Episode 27 – Will Polston

Making conversations about wealth….and Clubhouse….count! Paying it forward. Acting from a position of generosity and giving within the law of reciprocity. We’re talking to Will Polston.

Ray Blakney Live Lingua

Episode 28 – Ray Blakney

Making conversations about language count… Ray Blakney is the CEO And founder of online language school Live Lingua. Can you speak another language other than your native tongue? Wendy admitted to the “Making Conversations Count” team that she doesn’t, and we can’t help but feel she’s definitely not alone.

Many Ward write my book cuddle monster

Episode 29 – Mandy Ward

Mandy Ward is a book mentor, helping people to write their own books under the company ‘Write my book’. Mandy is also an author herself, including the popular children’s book ‘The Cuddle Monster’.

Sarah Townsend copywriter survival skills for freelancers

Episode 30 – Sarah Townsend

Sarah Townsend is a freelance copywriter and best-selling author of the book ‘survival skills for freelancers’. In this episode, we discuss the importance of conversations in the freelance world, and how things can lead to many opportunities…

Paul Furlong visual branding advertiser videographer

Episode 31 – Paul Furlong

Paul Furlong is part of Opus Media, producing TV advertising, videos, and photographs for businesses. He knows a thing or two about visual branding, and is considered a advertising guru!

Masami Sato founder B1G1

Episode 32 – Masami Sato

Masami Sato set up the B1G1 initiative. Helping businesses to do good by giving back. When was the last time you gave, freely Not for tax reasons. And not because you felt awkward at a raffle. We could all always do more.

Ann Hobbs Forward thinking publishing

Episode 33 – Ann Hobbs

Ann Hobbs helps people to self-publish their books with Forward Thinking Publishing. She is also a coach and author of her book ‘Kick ass your life’, helping people to push through adversity.

Kim-Adele Platts Career development coach

Episode 34 – Kim-Adele Platts

Kim-Adele Platts, Career Development Coach. Making Conversations about Leadership Count! If you don’t believe in yourself how do you expect others to? This was a question and topic that surfaced during this powerful and insightful conversation with Kim-Adele Platts.

Marina Hauer branding specialist for coaches

Episode 35 – Marina Hauer

Marina Hauer is a branding specialist for independent coaches. Are you using three different brand ‘voices’ in your marketing efforts? We’re making conversations about branding count!

David Smith MBE paralympian

Episode 36 – David Smith

David Smith MBE is a Paralympian in the sport Boccia. Do you know what Boccia is? David tells you in this episode all about the most inclusive Paralympian sport that helps people with their independence.

Graham Nash accountant

Episode 37 – Graham Nash

Graham Nash, BusinessWise Accountants, has worked in many fields over the years and the one common denominator has been helping business turnaround.

Ian Genius sales coach

Episode 38 – Ian Genius

Ian Genius is the sales coach to help you gain confidence in sales. His Ingenious technique helps clients see the value of your best package to COMMAND a higher price.

Jennie Erikson voice over artist

Episode 39 – Jennie Eriksen

Jennie Eriksen is a voice over artist, her company name is Lovely Voice. She helps her intended listener to learn by being able to bring characters to life.

Stella Da Silva employability trainer

Episode 40 – Stella Da Silva

Stella Da Silva talks about vocations in this episode, as a specialist employability trainer she shares her insider knowledge.
What skills do you need to be employable?

Hypnotist Jonathan Chase

Episode 41 – Jonathan Chase

Look into my eyes! You will feel very sleepy! You guessed it, we’re having one of our many conversations that count with hypnosis star Jonathan Chase.

Brynne Tillman social sales link

Episode 42 – Brynne Tillman

Brynne Tillman is a social selling expert. Her company ‘Social Sales Link’ teaches the importance of connection for selling on LinkedIn and other platforms.

Ruth Driscoll

Episode 43 – Ruth Driscoll

Ruth Driscoll supports people through toxic relationships. Her company the ‘life liberator’ takes her personal experiences to help others.

Rob Begg mindset coach

Episode 44 – Rob Begg

Rob Begg is a results based mindset coach to business leaders & teams. In this episode, he talks about your ego and self-limiting beliefs many of us hold.

Dan Knowlton video advertising

Episode 45 – Dan Knowlton

Dan Knowlton and his brother Lloyd run Knowlton – a social media and video advertising company who create unique, funny content to stop the scroll.

Sudhir Kumar

Episode 46 – Sudhir Kumar

Sudhir Kumar is an expert in social selling to grow your business, he’s written a book ‘Being Human: Marketing & Social Selling in a Digital World’.

Episode 47 – Ann Page

Ann Page is a lawyer who helps other lawyers with her courses. She teaches valuable business skills and teaches the importance of avoiding jargon.

Joe Chatham networking

Episode 48 – Joe Chatham

Joe Chatham set up USA 500. It’s an exclusive member-based organization focusing on sharing his expertise in marketing relationships and networking.

Larry Long Jnr

Episode 49 – Larry Long Jnr

Larry Long Jnr is a sales coach that helps give people, teams, and organizations the motivation to go from good to great.

pete cann laughter man

Episode 50 – Pete Cann

Larry Long Jnr is a sales coach that helps give people, teams, and organizations the motivation to go from good to great.

Hear what people are saying about the show

I love this podcast. The guests you have on all bring something new to the conversation and definitely thought-provoking.

Sometimes this means I change something I do, or something I would say, and other times it’s a real opportunity for reflection.

Thanks for sharing your guests with us Wendy, the podcasts are brilliant.

Paula Senior

I always enjoy listening to Wendy’s Making Conversations Count podcast and admire her talent for drawing out people’s stories and getting to the heart of things for finding out what makes them tick.

We all have pivotal moments and Wendy manages to find the right parts, showcasing the reasons why someone is who they are.

It’s those details that we connect to and come to more understanding of why people do what they do.

Heidi Medina

Love this podcast series. It’s a great idea to have a theme of ‘pivotal conversations’ and the variety of guests from massively different backgrounds keeps it fresh and interesting.

Wendy is a natural host and makes people feel at ease to share their stories.

Andrew Deighton

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