Making those dreaded sales calls is a daunting task. But what if there was another way?

Wendy Harris (host of this podcast) is a highly experienced telemarketing trainer.

And frankly, she has something of an unfair disadvantage when it comes to making sales calls.

She knows exactly how to approach the calls, and how to ensure the prospect gets the best possible experience through the format of a great conversation.

But it’s not quite that simple.

Artwork for this podcast episode about making sales calls

Want a sneaky peak of the episode?

Prefer to read?

Here’s the episode’s transcript!

In this episode, Wendy is joined by her American counterpart, John Barrows.

Between the pair, they have several decades of outbound sales experience.

Including, that most feared of all outbound tools – sales calls.

Cold calling!

And if you’re in the business of sales, you’re going to want to check it out!

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Here’s what’s in this episode about sales calls!

(Table of contents)

Listen to this episode about sales calls via your favourite app! Click this quote pic to be taken to it!

Who is John Barrows?

John Barrows is the founder of J.Barrows Sales Training and he speaks to the importance of doing sales calls the right way!

If you’re unsure what we mean by that, you must be new to the podcast.

And this is literally what Wendy preaches not only on the podcast, but also via her popular educational LinkedIn posts and articles on the subject.

Doing sales calls the right way is about a number of different things, including, not relying on a bland script, and ensuring you don’t go straight in with the sales pitch!

John Barrows’ clients include Salesforce, LinkedIn, Tableau, Okta.

He has been featured in Forbes, Inc and Entrepreneur and trained tens of thousands of sales reps around the world.

And during his career he’s worked with the likes of Jack Welsh (General Electric – more on that later) and Jay Baitler of Staples fame (again, more to be revealed!)

And in this episode, we’re getting a mini masterclass in how John approaches sales and what kind of things he’s found absolutely do not work!

Those things he’s found that do.

Also, ultimately, how you can get that horse to drink the water…

A sales person making sales calls
Photographer: Hassan OUAJBIR | Source: Unsplash

No scripts please!

One of the things we really love about having John Barrows on this podcast episode, is that he doesn’t pull any punches when it comes to the topic of making sales calls!

If you’re a business that’s using telesales or telemarketing teams for business development, you will definitely want to check this episode out, even though it might be a hard listen at times.

Hey, don’t feel ashamed.

We’re all friends here.

And it’s not our style to make you feel bad and tell you that you’re getting your sales calls wrong.

It’s all about helping you do it better!

A quote from the transcript of this episode all about sales calls

One of those things you could do to get it better, is to ditch the scripts!

John talks candidly about this in the episode.

“When you start making sales calls, you literally have no idea what you're doing or what to even say.

So as much as I hate scripts, I think they do have a place in a sales rep’s evolution.


I'll give you an example here with a JB sales.

We do sales training, right? And I have a slide deck.

It is a slide deck of our training that goes slide one through however many.

When a new trainer comes on board, I need them to learn how to deliver that entire slide deck.”

Resist taking equity in place of comp!

One of the most insightful moments in this episode is when John shares his views on the modern way in which businesses try to win over hungry new sales talent.

The use of equity stakes in lieu of salary.

Photographer: LinkedIn Sales Solutions | Source: Unsplash

This is apparently quite common in the SaaS industry, and tech overall.

John offers some quite sage advice for any sales executive who’s being offered a slice of the pie from their employer.

“I see so many companies in the SaaS world play with that exact thing.

Like oh, we'll give you shares, we're going to give you equity.

And unfortunately most reps have no idea what that actually means.

And so it sounds very sexy and it feels really good to sound like you have shares of a business and that type of thing.

But I think it's like 2% of companies actually…

The reps actually realize that, and that's only if they stay long enough to have some sort of major exit with the company.”

Photographer: MARK ADRIANE | Source: Unsplash

Values-based selling

When it comes to selling, you can probably get the customer over the line if they’re in the market for what you’re offering.

But what about if they also share your values?

Then, the deal becomes easier.

It seems that John has transposed that value system not just in his sales process, but also throughout his sales team and those making the sales calls.

“We only have 15 people here, but we hire on values, period, right?

I built this company on values, on my personal values, and then we've evolved into our business values, and that's what we hire on.”

Wendywoo’s takeaway from the conversation about sales calls

“It’s always so hard to come up with a take away when it comes to a conversation that involves the topic of outbound sales calls.

I’ve been living and breathing it for decades!

That said, I’m grateful to John for bringing a breath of fresh air and perspective to the topic.

It’s my hope that after listening to the episode, (or reading the transcript) that you take on board everything he has to say about getting rid of those scripts.

And making the product knowledge and demonstrations, your own.

Furthermore, that you’ll be giving more consideration to your opening questions.”

John Barrows’ links


Sales Training & Tips Blog | JBarrows




JBarrows Sales Training




John Barrows – Posters and Apparel for the World's Leading Sales Teams


Make It Happen Mondays – B2B Sales Talk with John Barrows on Apple Podcasts

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