Do you need a business coach? If things are struggling to ‘take off’ consider a business co-pilot!

Do you need a business coach? We're Making Conversations about your business co-pilot Count!

Episode 77 - David Holland

Do you actually need a business coach?

We’re making conversations around working with a business co-pilot count, with David Holland!

 

Business coach and co-pilot David Holland "Making Conversations Count" podcast artwork

Big take-away quote from this conversation about whether you need a business coach or expert in the co-pilot seat of your organisation:

There’s a danger of focusing on the stuff… the accoutrements of life and the big fancy cars and that sort of thing…”

David Holland, Making Conversations Count – (April 2022)

(Hard of hearing? Transcript here).

Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here.) 

This week’s conversation around the need for a business coach or co-pilot in your organistation

If you’re like most business owners, you’re working hard every day to make your business a success.

But sometimes it can be tough to see the wood from the trees, especially when you’re so close to your own business.

This is where a business co-pilot can be invaluable.

In this week’s episode of “Making Conversations Count”, we speak with David Holland about the value of having a co-pilot in your business.

David is a successful entrepreneur who has learned how to see the big picture and help businesses achieve their goals.

Listen in to this episode to learn more!

Pssst! Have you signed up yet? Wendy’s currently running a 12 week blueprint programme which outlines her ‘four R formula’. Want to overcome that fear of rejection or guide your teams towards having better conversations? Well, then you need to click on this 👇.

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What does a business co-pilot actually do?

One of the biggest challenges business owners face is knowing when to pull back and focus on their own business and when to push forward and focus on their clients.

A business co-pilot can help you navigate this difficult terrain, and David is a perfect example of someone who can help.

As the founder of “Results Rules Ok”, a business coaching business, David has helped many businesses achieve their goals.

And he’s putting his money where his mouth is.

He’s had to pull back himself in the past in order to facilitate his dream business offering of helping others with their businesses.

His unique perspective and experience make him the perfect business coach and co-pilot for busy business owners who are looking to take their company to the next level.

If you’re looking for help in growing your business, then take a listen to David Holland as he’s Making Conversations about co-pilots Count!

He’s passionate about helping businesses succeed and will talk you through how he can help business owners like you to reach your goals.

Focusing on the wrong things, like ‘stuff’

If you’re always chasing the next business trend in a bid to “keep up with the Joneses”, you may be overlooking one of the most important factors in business success – your mindset.

A recent study found that people who focus on material possessions are less happy than those who don’t, so it’s time to rethink what really makes us happy.

And a good business coach can help you do just that!

Here’s a quote from the episode transcript, where David is talking about the lure of ‘stuff’.

“There’s nothing wrong with big, fancy cars, but it’s the reason and the purpose we have them for, I think.

Something we have noticed over here in France, we are literally in a little tiny village, there’s about 400 people here and the biggest car in the village is a tractor, that’s it, and the next one’s a combine harvester!  In France, it’s different.

There doesn’t seem to be, as there is in the UK, and we have lived in the US as well and the US to a degree, there is this sort of badge envy or brand envy, certainly when it comes to cars.

You’ve got to have the latest Mercedes or BMW or Porsche or whatever it is.  They are fabulous cars, great cars, but it’s the reasoning behind it.”

What are your goals?

Most people never figure out their true goals in life.

They spend their days working at jobs they hate, chasing after things they don’t really want, and living a life that’s not really theirs.

But it doesn’t have to be that way.

You can achieve great success if you know what you’re working for and how to get there.

A business coach can help you figure out your true goals and create a roadmap to achieving them.

GIF of a woman making it rain with a money spraying gun

How business coaching works

Most business owners are so busy with the day-to-day operations and they don’t have time to step back and see the big picture.

A business coach can help you do just that.

A good business coach – or as David calls himself, business co-pilot – can help you set goals, create a plan to achieve them, and stay on track while you’re working towards them.

But how do you know if your business coaching is working?

And how do you measure results?

There are a few ways to measure the success of business coaching and it fully depends on your desired goals.

However, these are a few examples of KPIs that business coaches like David work to, dependent on the business goals of the person he’s working with.

These can be:

  • More customers with long term value
  • Number of new clients/customers acquired in the duration of the coaching relationship
  • Increased revenue or profits
  • Number of new employees hired as a result of the coaching relationship
  • Decreased employee turnover
  • Increased customer satisfaction

David is living proof of the value of having a good business coach. Himself and his wife were his own first ‘clients’.

“Even when we didn’t know what coaching was all about 20 years ago, we hoped, thought, believed it was the right thing. 

It turns out it was, thank goodness, but you had to take a little bit of a risk leaving your career, your corporate path, whatever career you’ve been on, into this creating something for yourself. 

Even if you’re running your own business and you want to change a direction, it’s a bit of a leap of faith, but in principle it’s worth it, absolutely worth it.”

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Does business coaching guarantee a successful business?

The sixty million dollar question (if you’ll excuse the pun!)

The bottom line is that business coaching works if you’re willing to put in the work.

A business coach can help you with supporting you to achieve your goals, but you have to be willing to do the work yourself.

The question is, are you ready for success?

Business coaching is not a one-size-fits-all solution, and it’s not right for every business owner.

There are certain types of business owners who are better suited to business coaching than others.

Right now, we’re going to take a look at three of the most common types of business owners who can benefit from business coaching.

1. Business owners who are struggling to find their business’ direction

If you’re feeling lost and don’t know where to turn, business coaching may be just what you need. A business coach can help you find your business’ direction and set goals that are realistic and achievable.

They can also help you create a plan to achieve these goals and stay on track while you’re working towards them.

2. Business owners who need help setting and achieving goals

If you’re a business owner who is struggling to set and achieve your goals, then you may need the help of a business coach.

A business coach can help you by providing guidance and support as you work to achieve your goals.

They can also help you to stay on track and motivated throughout the process.

3. Business owners who want more customers with long-term value

A business coach can help business owners to achieve success by helping them to attract more customers with long-term value.

Business coaches can help business owners to identify their target market and develop strategies to reach these customers.

They can also help business owners to create a customer retention plan, so that they can keep these customers for the long term.

Business coach David’s own words on what he does to help his clients in the role of a business co-pilot 

“Everybody we work with and I’m sure for yourself as well, bright, enthusiastic, engaging, they want to get on, they want to have some fun in their business and build their lifestyle. 

If I can add some direction and structure to that and some pointers, and a bit of accountability as well, then that’s where it comes from; but definitely not that people are all broken.”

A businessman on a business call with a business coach or a business co-pilot

A proud business coaching moment

This episode also reveals one of David’s proudest moments as a business coach.

Without giving too much a way, one of his clients was carrying a heavy burden of guilt and shame. Until he started working with David.

All it took was one conversation to help lift the client’s burden and move forward with his business.

Listen from 18m51s to hear that story.

And this wasn’t even the conversation of the episode so you know you’re in for a real doozy this week!

Give time for free in order to win opportunities!

Ahh, you’ve come this far in the post, we might as well reward you for it.

This week’s conversation that counts is all about offering time in order to create opportunities.

Listen as David recounts the chance encounter with a stranger on a train that led to him making a decision that ended up becoming a life-changing moment.

Listen from 26m54s to hear about the turning point conversation with the stranger on a train!

The lessons of this conversation with David Holland

This episode of Making Conversations Count talks us through how to recruit help and support in your business, by making conversations about business co-pilots count.

With the help of David Holland, you’ll learn:

  • How David’s desire to design the perfect life led to his becoming a business coach
  • ‘Stuff’ is not the answer (fast cars, beaches etc)
  • How a business coach can help and how business coaches want to help
  • How you can seriously gain in life by just giving away your most precious possession!
  • David’s proudest achievement as a business coach
  • The pivotal conversation he had on a train which changed his life

So, Wendy’s takeaway from the conversation in this episode about whether you need a business coach or a co-pilot in your organisation with David Holland?

“If you’re feeling lost and don’t know where to turn, getting a business co-pilot may be just what you need.

A business coach can help you find your business’ direction and set goals that are realistic and achievable.

They can also help you create a plan to achieve these goals and stay on track while you’re working towards them.

They can also help you by providing guidance and support and help to stay on track and motivated throughout the process even when things might feel like they’re too much!”

Carry on the conversation with David:
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Get in touch with David

Please do let us know your take-aways from this episode by leaving a comment at https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-David-Holland

New to this site? Learn more about Making Conversations Count podcast:

“Making Conversations Count” is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.

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Click this box to read the full Episode Transcript - Conversation around how can a public speaking coach change your life? - "Making Conversations Count"

How can public speaking coaches change your life episode artwork

You’ll hear:

 

Freddy vs Jason (1m13s)

What Tyler does now (4m10s)

Everyone says you need to sell the benefits. It's actually more about selling the solution! (8m30s)

Tyler's favourite family trip (13m39s)

Mannerisms. Hmmmm… (26m10s)

Tyler’s conversation that counted (39m50s)

 

Freddy vs Jason (1m13s)

 

Wendy

Just looked up your IMDb.

 

Tyler

How's that for you?

 

Wendy

Well, I'm just surprised that you are a good and all round sort of sane individual, having been on "Freddie versus Jason". I was like...."ahhh can't look!"

 

Tyler

So the funny thing is that almost everybody gravitates to that production. Like you were in Freddy versus Jason. I'm like, let me tell you....

 

Tyler

I've not seen it.

 

Tyler

...how very little I am in Freddy versus Jason. Like, blink and you miss me. And yet so many people actually know the scene when I explain it. And the people who have seen the movie, I know exactly who you are.....the counselor. I'm like, you don't know. And they're like, explaining the scene, and I'm like, oh, you do know. How do you know? I am so much nothing in that film. The funny thing is I got that role because I was actually doing photo double stand in and stunt work on that movie. And they needed somebody who could do this thing last minute.

 

Wendy

Put that broom down.

 

Tyler

Yeah, almost like that. So no word of a lie. For, like, three weeks prior to it, I was doing stand in work. And most stand in work, you just kind of sit in your chair off screen and just kind of wait and watch the actors do their thing. And I was doing almost nothing. I was literally sleeping on set.... "Annette wants to talk to you". That's extras casting, by the way. That's not main casting. That's extras casting. And I was like, oh. And I thought I was about to get fired because sleeping on set. Because she had come to set and Annette never comes to set. And I was like, oh, fuck. I'm like, "Hi". She's like, "hey". I'm like, "you're remarkably cheery. What's going on?" Because I'm still in a sleep haze. And she's like, "hey, do you want to do a speaking role?" I'm like, "I'm your extras ca.... Sure. I'm confused right now." And then she explained what was going on, and I was like, okay, sure. Let's do this thing. Why not? Two lines. That was all it was.

 

Wendy

See, I just thought I'll have a look and see because I know you'd say you'd done childhood acting, and I thought I'll go and have a look. And I've been playing around, and the podcast is on IMDb. So I thought, oh, I can credit him now. That's cool.

 

Tyler

Oh, that's awesome.

 

Wendy

Fast forward 20 years to the grown up job that you're doing now then Tyler is...

 

Tyler

I'm an adult, babysitter.

 

Wendy

You're the manny.

 

Tyler

Yeah.

 

What Tyler does now (4m10s)

 

Wendy

Just for the sake of the listeners, tell us what you do now.

 

Tyler

I wear many hats, primarily. I am now a best selling author and speaker coach. So I train people on how to give better presentations, feel more confident speaking to groups of people. And then I also run a safety consulting company. And you would think the two would be wildly disparate, that they just don't blend. But I actually got into the safety speaking or more specifically, the public speaker training from my safety consulting practice, because I found that the biggest hindrance to leadership being able to communicate their safety program and implement it. And in fact, the reason that my company is called Total Buyin is because the reason people couldn't get buyin was they had a very poor way of communicating and most people struggle with this public speaking persona. So my most popular training course was actually my "Power To Speak Naked" Course, which was rebranded to the "Power To Speak Naked", just to have a little bit more pop and sizzle!....

 

Wendy

Not in my mirror!

 

Tyler

Originally it was called Basic Instructional Technique because I liked the acronym. It was B.I.T. I'm going to give you a B.I.T.

 

Tyler

And the funny thing is, it was a way to trick people into learning how to public speak without thinking they were going to public speak. But I found that a lot of people felt ambushed by it because when they realised that two days was going to be public speaking and only public speaking, they were like, I don't public speak. And I'm like, Actually, you do. Yeah. The safety consultant kind of morphed into this public speaker training, which has really brought my life full circle. Right. You go from child actor to retiring after 20 years, because you get to do that. So I got to retire at 25, go back to school, get an engineering discipline, start my own business, watch that business crumble and fail, and then start to find my path in safety. And that was a weird detour too, becoming a safety professional after being a geomatics professional just because I had to take all this training to run my Geomatics company, to be compliant with the government. And all of those little twists and turns have brought me to this culmination of being able to, A, speak to executives on their level in a very sympathetic and understanding way, but also show them how they can communicate to everyone and vary their message and train them to be more effective communicators. It has just been bizarre and remarkably rewarding.

 

Wendy

I don't know about you, Tyler, but don't you find it fascinating that really, it boils down to we're all in sales, it doesn't matter what it is that you're talking about, you've just got to find that something that you are happy and passionate to communicate about.

 

Tyler

Yeah, no, we're all selling something. And I think that's the thing that I really was a light bulb moment for me when I was explaining safety, because I heard it all the time. Right. As a safety professional, your job is to sell safety. And I'm like, is it, though? And in my head, I was like, no, but really, it's about communicating. And then I'm like, well, sales is communication. And so, yes, we are all selling something, even if it's a belief in ourselves. Right? We need to communicate that vision of us so that other people can buy into that vision of us. I find it amazing that's kind of what the world boils down to is we're all selling something.

 

Everyone says you need to sell the benefits. It's actually more about selling the solution!

 

Wendy

And the first lesson we have to buy into... going to stay on brand... is the belief in ourselves, isn't it? That's the first lesson. And when it comes to anything at all, then it doesn't matter. I have this conversation with many a guest, is that we all think we're selling an outcome, yet in actual fact, what we want to feel is the transformation. So that's what we're buying into, isn't it? You can do this, but that's going to mean this as well. So often it's the byproducts that we want more than the thing.

 

Tyler

Yeah, it's funny, I was reading an article yesterday about good presentations and everybody thinks they need to sell the benefits and features and the reality is you need to sell the solution. And a lot of times that solution comes with identifying what the problem is to begin with and how for a lot of us, the problem is our own lack of belief in our own abilities. And so the first person that we need to sell to is ourselves. Like, what makes you capable of doing that? And I know for me, I've spoken on stage to tens of thousands of people. I've performed to auditoriums of thousands of people. I have in my band played to an outdoor venue that was almost hundreds of thousands of people. I think that when we played our venue there was 90,000 people. And like that everybody looks at me and goes, well, aren't you scared? I'm like, well, at that point, no, I wasn't scared of that. But let me tell you something that does terrify me. Sitting in an executive's office who earns millions of dollars every year and telling them that they're really bad at public speaking and helping them get there because... you want to talk about an inferiority complex, I'm like, who am I to be coaching this person? And they're looking at me going, how does he get up on stage every day and not feel terrified?

 

Wendy

They're disproportionate, aren't they, in terms of comparison?

 

Tyler

Exactly. And that's the thing. As soon as we recognise that we are all people and we all struggle with some of these self doubts, we all struggle with self doubt. It's just what are we doubting in that time? And for me, it's been remarkably freeing to be able to recognise that I have this skill set, this is the thing that I'm good at. And lucky for me, it only took 42 years to get to this point because there are people who don't know what they're good at for years and years and years and years. They spend all this time chasing the tiger tail and just doesn't they never catch it. And for me, I feel really blessed that I've been able to mash up all of my strengths and be able to compensate for my areas of improvement by outsourcing the people who do it way better than me. I'm not a good business man, which is hilarious because I technically own three companies now and will be starting a fourth one this year. Yeah, apparently I'm a masochist as well. But I recognise where I am, where my strengths are, and that is being able to give very clear direction, communicate an idea, and allow then people to go on their own. I'm very good at marshaling and connecting people, and then I have this really good skill set of being able to stand up on stage and just engage a crowd. And that has allowed me to do some really, really amazing things with my life and have just a really fun lifestyle, too. Like, I get to travel with my daughter. That's cool. That's really fun for me. And a high value on my hierarchy, too, is family. So to be able to bring her and have her a part of what I do, to be able to book vacations with the whole family around a speaking schedule and tour and make it a paid vacation... Like all those things are just really fun.

 

Tyler's favourite family trip (13m39s)

 

Wendy

Double barrel question. What would you say your favorite trip with her has been? And what would you say her favorite trip with you has been?

 

Tyler

You know, it's funny. You'd think it was going to Houston, but I actually think her favorite trip with me was when we went to the houseboat with my brother and sister in law. And the fact that I had the time to do that, that's the other thing too. My wife was in Ireland, and it was a long weekend here in Canada, except tember long weekend. I believe everybody else was going back to school, but Kenzie at that time would have been four, and so she didn't have school. And Jen and I... my wife and I had basically swapped Kenzie at the airport. I was coming back from a speaking engagement, and Jen was flying out to Ireland, and I think we didn't quite do the hand off at the airport, but it was pretty close. There's, like a day overlap. Hi, how are you? And my sister in law phoned me, and she said, hey, we've got the boat for the weekend, actually for the week. Did you want to join us? And I had nothing on the go. And so I looked at Kenzie, I'm like, do you want to go hang out at the lake? She's like, sure. And we packed up all the floaty stuff, and we went out to the house boat, and nobody else could make it because everybody else had things that were starting because it was the end of September. And so we basically toured around with Captain Jim and found a private beach and docked the boat and floated around the lake for four or five days. And Kenzie had an absolute blast. Like, she was uncovering rocks. She was going for hikes, she was swimming, and the houseboat had a water slide off the back of it. She's terrified to go off the water slide until Daddy took her the one time, and then she was still terrified to go off it. But then she wanted to do it again. Just all the things she still talks about it to this day, to the point where we ended up going houseboating again with Jen the following year. And she's like, I thought this was going to be more fun. You made it sound like it was more fun. I was like, I don't know what to tell you, babe. This is basically what we did the last time. This is a lot of fun for us. She's like, nah, this is not my thing.

 

Wendy

But isn't it interesting? Because what Kenzie has done really, is she's overcome some fears as well. And she's done that with dad holding a hand.

 

Tyler

Yeah, well, she does that a lot, too. Unfortunately, my daughter is the child of a former child actor, and I know the industry inside and out. So when I saw my daughter for the first time, I'm like, oh, wow, you look like an alien. And then about a week later, she stopped looking like an alien. It was just absolutely adorable. And then, so my next thought was like, you need to be in film. And everything in me was like, but your daddy can't be a stage daddy. No. And so she was in her first commercial before she was a year old. The first time she was on film, she was eleven months old. And I think she got her first modeling gig. She was coming up 22 months. Like, she wasn't yet two. It's actually that photo, that modeling gig photo is the cover of my cell phone because I absolutely love it. They captured an innocence about my child that I can't even replicate or duplicate because I see the terror that she is when I try to put her to bed.

 

Wendy

You can't control what she dreams about either, Tyler.

 

Tyler

But I've watched her grow up in film and be able to communicate to me, too. Like, Covid was really hard on her because she really enjoyed auditions prior to Covid because it meant that she got to go and see other kids. And in the audition room, they always had toys and she got to meet people and be social. My daughter is very, very social. And then when she got to go into the casting session, daddy couldn't come. It was just her and the casting director. Daddy had to wait outside and then she got to go and she got to play. And then if she got the role, she got to go on set. And I could come with her, but she got to be on camera. And Daddy didn't, except for the couple of times where we've gotten to do things together, which has been super fun, too. And then when Covid came and we switched from casting in person to casting virtually and doing self tapes, she hated it because casting was no longer getting dressed up and getting pretty and memorizing lines in the car ride to the running, rehearsing lines in the car ride to the audition.

 

Wendy

It's all the anticipation, though, in the build up, the interaction of it all.

 

Tyler

Yes. Because now it was coming down into the basement and reading with Daddy again, and I'm so proud of my daughter, because about the fifth audition into it, she was like, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm like, Baby, you love being on set. She's like, yeah, but I need to be on set if it means I have to go down to the basement and audition. And I was like, you are so mature. And for five. I love you. I was so proud. But she's overcoming those fears and finding her voice, which I shouldn't be surprised, because I dedicated my book to her and said that very thing. I was like, May you always have the courage to find your voice and know that you will be heard. So if I'm going to say that in the book, if I'm going to put it in writing, I'm going to put it out the universe, obviously she's going to be able to do that.

 

Wendy

Well. I think it's fascinating that there are parents out there that do this, put on to their children, their dreams, that sort of didn't happen in one thing or another. And you're not describing a child who doesn't have a mind of her own, which is great.

 

Tyler

Yes.

 

Wendy

So have you got any plans to bring her on stage with you at a speaking gig? Do you think she would handle that?

 

Tyler

Would she handle it? Absolutely. Will I do it? If she wants to? Honestly, we do the things that she wants to do. If I was a stage dad, I'd be like, no, you've got to audition because this is paying for your education. Because that's how I paid for my education. You start acting at six years old and 75% of your earnings go into a trust that builds up quickly, especially if you have good financial management with it. Was I sad a little bit when she stopped wanting to do it? Yeah, I was, because I see how much she enjoys it and I was sad that it was ruined for her but, you know, she also asked me a couple of weeks ago, she's like, Daddy, over the summer, can I start auditioning again? Sure. You don't have school. If that's what you want to do, we'll do it.

 

Wendy

It's a double edged sword, isn't it, Tyler? Because she's clearly... there are two sides to this. She's missed the auditioning, but she's also missed her thing with Daddy. She's got to be an element of that as well.

 

Tyler

Yeah, I think that has a bit to it, too. And so to your original question, would I bring her on stage? Absolutely. Because she loves that environment the same way that I do. But I would only bring her on, first of all, if it served a purpose, because that's the other thing, too, for me, I don't do anything on stage unless it serves a purpose, and more specifically, if it serves the audience. If it isn't going to be a benefit to my audience, I'm not going to bring my kid on stage just as a gimmick. Is she super cute? Yeah. Could I sell more programs if I put her up there? Absolutely I could, because you don't want to deny this child something. So buy Daddy's program and it would sell. But hey, I'm not going to exploit my daughter that way.

 

Wendy

No, but look, if I was in the audience and she came on stage and it was like the audience could ask her anything, I would just say, how much has Daddy paid you to do this? And I can just imagine her going, oh, no, I asked. Right? Now if you imagine that's the kind of endorsement, isn't it, that anybody would really want us as a parent or for any kind of fan. The fact that it's such a personal relationship just kind of strengthens that for me. So I just think there could be something in this. I can see this going somewhere.

 

Tyler

Yeah, I think you're right. It is a testament to her free will and the fact that my training works because she would want to do it as opposed to not want to do it. But I don't know what next month holds. I don't even know what the next hour holds. So I don't know what her wants and desires are going to be as she grows up and she kind of ebbs and flows out of a want for the spot. She's really, truly... they say that a child is a reflection of their parents, and she is. My wife and I are truly polar opposites. We are Ying and Yang. Right now. You want to talk the astrology, you're the ram. She's, you're the ox. Like, we are literally six years apart. She's not a tourist. She's... I believe a Pisces. So she's a water sign and I'm a fire sign. Right.

 

Wendy

She can put you out.

 

Tyler

Oh can she ever. But at the same time, we really complement each other because she's always allowing me and in fact, encouraging me to take the spotlight. And I'm always encouraging of her if she wants to step behind. She loves being a puppet master. First of all, she's a project manager. She loves to pull the strings from backstage. Right. Like, she is the ultimate wizard of Oz. Just don't look behind the curtain. Don't ask how the magic is done, but know that it's going to happen and it will work.

 

Wendy

We all need a bit more of that kind of lesson.

 

Tyler

Do not pay attention to the man behind the curtain. And she's brilliant. So I look at my daughter and when my daughter is being very like, you can see her thinking through a problem and she's very calculated with it and her daddy is not that way. I am one of those solve it through repeated trial and error. And Jen is very methodical in the let's not error, let's get it right the first time. So she thinks through the steps where I'm like, well, let's place the cog here and if it doesn't work, round peg, square hole. Doesn't work. Okay, round peg, triangle hole. No, still doesn't work. Oh, look, there's a round hole, let's stick it through there. I will try different options and Jen tries to do the right solution the first time. And it's interesting watching Kenzie blend that and find her own way, her own path and her own voice.

 

Wendy

There's nothing more magical is that being a parent and seeing what you influence every day, and don't realise what leaks.

 

Tyler

Yeah, it's amazing too. Yeah. Because she'll do things you're like, oh, I'm so proud of you. And then she'll do things and I'm like, oh, do not do that. And then I go, oh, but I would have done that. Even the way that my daughter... it's a sheer mirror, right? Children are mirrors of ourselves. And I watch her get frustrated right now and I hear me in her response where she'll go "ugh". It even sounds like me. And creepishly. She looks like me when she does it right? And when she gets really upset, deeply hurt by society, she looks like her mum. Like the way that you can see her process the hurt... "and why would that happen"? And I see her mum in her instantly and it's amazing how she has become this mirror to us and patterns our behavior. So there's things that she does and I'm like, oh, yeah, just like me. And then there's things that she does and I go, that's just like me.

 

Mannerisms. Hmmmm… (26m10s)

 

Wendy

Yeah. Mannerisms, it's a big topic. Mannerisms kind of bleeds out in body language, doesn't it? As well. When you're on stage and I've seen lots of different tips for what to do, people just don't know what to do with their hands, do they?

 

Tyler

Yeah, hands, feet. And here's the thing, because people will be told, keep still. And then you're unnaturally mannequin. And then people are like, don't pace, which really don't pace. But there are times where walking and movement is necessary and people are like, well, keep your hands still or use your hands, but don't use your hands too much, but find the thing. And then there is no magic bullet or one answer. What it is, is. And you and I have had this conversation offline. So let's say for your listeners online authenticity is synonymous with self awareness. If you want to be a truly authentic presenter, you need to know who you are at your core. I am a hand talker. I am a very large personality. I'm going to express myself with my hands, with my body, with my face. I'm expressive, but I'm not using one thing. Right. Like, what president was it? I think it was Bush senior had his thumb right. This was how he would deliver it.

 

Wendy

the hammer blow.

 

Tyler

The hammer blow, yeah. And everybody has that one thing. I think Bob Dole did it too. No, it was not the president. It was Bob Dole had this up. Bob Dole is what Bob Dole is going to do. And it never went away. This was the only gesture that happened from the podium. That's when it becomes a mockery, where, for me, I am going to wave my hands a lot. They're going to do this round, circular motion, but I'm also going to accentuate a thing, or I'm going to point to a thing, or I'm going to use a broad, wide gesture. When it's appropriate. I'm going to use my body to express itself. One of the challenges that I always give to any one of my clients is stand still for the first 60 seconds of your talk just to see how unnatural it feels. But at the same time that it makes you hyper aware of why you want to move, because sometimes you're moving to dissipate nervous energy, and that's pacing, that's nervous pacing, and that's distracting to an audience, and it's taking away from your message. But sometimes you need to move because your body needs to move. And if you suppress that instinct because somebody told you you need to be still, you need to keep your hands still, then you become this weird robotic mannequin mime where everything is frozen and still...

 

Tyler

And you're not on Zoom.

 

Wendy

And you're not on zoom. Yeah. There is time for movement, and it's finding and again, this is from my theatrical background when we would do blocking. There is time for movement, and there is time for stillness. Both have their ability to enhance the dialogue that is being delivered. Both have the ability to detract from the dialogue that is being delivered. And the key is learning when is the right time for both?

 

Wendy

So it's a lot like it depends.

 

Tyler

Like anything in life, right? When is it appropriate to do anything? Depends on the circumstances in which you're doing it.

 

Wendy

Yeah. I think this is why I like speaking to people like you, Tyler, that have got this fluid approach. There are frameworks that you can follow, and there are best practices that you can have key do's and don'ts. That isn't necessarily going to affect the it depends side of things. But it's going deeper into that intuition, isn't it, of your craft and what it is that you do. You can't even see my hands. I'm doing this going deeper into your craft, you know, needing bread.

 

Tyler

Yeah. But as you need the bread, using the hands to point the arrow and show the flow like it's an illustrative thing. We all are going to do it naturally. And the thing is, it's funny because if people are just listening to the audio, they're listening to making conversations count and all they have is the audio, they can still hear that movement.

 

Tyler

If you don't do it, your voice sounds different. You need that movement and it translates. If you were to do your podcast the next time, sitting on your hands and never move, people would be like, what is wrong with this episode? They wouldn't know, right? They couldn't see, but they would feel that it was just a little off. I was watching an unbelievable interview between two of my favorite comics, whitney Cummings and Taylor Tomlinson. And it was right at the beginning of the pandemic. It was like a few months in and somehow they were able to record live. They've done like an isolation thing. And in the conversation, Taylor was talking about how she had just recorded her first special and some of the things that she did to get with they were talking about insecurities and being a woman in comedy and some things that the men don't have to think about. And she was talking about just prior. She was promoting the special. She was on The Tonight Show and the makeup artist said, why don't you leave your hair down? You're so pretty. Why don't we just leave your hair down? And Taylor always ties her hair back because that's where she feels comfortable. And she does a lot of she's very animated when she tells her story. She reenacts a lot of the stuff and she bends over a lot. She takes physicalities. And when she's doing her storytelling, which is, by the way, fantastic thing to do when you want to tell a story. And she was talking about how she left her hair down and it threw her because comedy is very much like sports, where when you're at the top of your game, you're at the top of your game because you can do things in repetition. And her hair being loose through her off. And the Whitney Cummings was talking about how she had done a similar thing when she was filming her HBO special and left her hair down. And normally she keeps it back and she had, you know, lip gloss and her hair kept getting stuck in the lip gloss and it threw her. She's like, it's not that it was a bad set. It's that it wasn't the best set that it could be. And it's recognizing what are those things that are comfortable for us? What are those things that ground us? What are those things that illustrate the story so that we can tell the story better, so that we're not in our head, that we are connected with our body and subsequently connected with our audience? Because ultimately it's. About the audience and how do the distractions yeah. How do we give ourselves the best chance to connect with our audience, and that is to be out of our head. So I was fascinated by watching this interview at how much I related to it. Like, I have my pretalk routine that I have to do. There's the long version of it there's been nice to have, right? Like, I like it when I can walk through a venue and I can touch things. I like when I can meet with the audience prior to it and do a little bit of pre audience analysis. But my must have I have to have my five minutes backstage. I have to do my breathing exercises, I have to get my glass of water in before I go on stage. I absolutely, positively have to do my visualizations. If I don't do those things, I feel off each time. So it's finding those things that are going to serve you so that you can serve your audience.

 

Wendy

And a lot of people would call those rituals, but they're not are they about setting yourself up for what's to come?

 

Tyler

Yeah. And there is a form of ritual to it in that it's repeatable. So whether it's rich, do you call it ritual or whether you call it ritual?

 

Wendy

Oh, come on. You know, I've spoken to Brad.

 

Tyler

Yeah, yes, I do. But he had a point.

 

Wendy

But he does have a point, and he's made a very good point of using that terminology to serve people. And that's the point, isn't it? And it's clearly it serves you by doing things in a certain way and getting prepared. And just sort of going back to your point about the movement of things and an audio and the way that you can feel that. I can categorically tell you that after 2 million or something telephone calls, that if you're having a bad day and they say, Smile when you dial, and it does help, and it helps your posture and everything, right? But if you're having a terrible day, don't do it because people can hear that still, even when you've just made that extra effort gosh, yeah. Body language. Because that hearing tall that we have is so finely tuned when it's the only thing we have.

 

Tyler

Especially when it's the only thing we have. You know, you look at anybody who has any form of sensory deprivation, and then you have those heightened senses when you can only rely on the audio. It's amazing the cues that you can pick up on. And as you said, our brain is finely tuned to it. You know when somebody is smiling on the phone, you know when they're having a bad day. And it goes the other way, too. I've talked to people about this with energy work. We know when there's been a fight in a room, even if we've never witnessed the fight, you've walked into that room and people were like and then you get that link. You're like, oh, what is with that? And you're like and you become hyper sensitive and aware of you're walking on eggshells a little bit, because what did I just walk into? You didn't witness a fight. There was nothing you didn't see. You don't know. But you know that something went on. And we as human beings have a far better connection with each other than I think we give ourselves credit for.

 

Wendy

It's that invisible signature, isn't it, that is left behind, which is quite something.

 

Tyler

Well, and not only that's left behind, but that leads in front, right? Like, I have a magnetic field that travels around me, and that's leading my actions, and it's being left behind. And we literally do humans are basically big batteries. We have electromagnetic pulses running through us. That's how our body actually stays alive. When those electrical pulses stop, so does everything else, because the electrical pulses are what runs your brain in your heart. So when the electricity in your body stops, when your battery gets drained, that's when the body stops working. And anybody who's done any kind of 10th grade physics knows that if you run an electrical current through something, there is an electromagnetic wave that comes from that. That's how half of modern science measures. The body is through EKGs and your Cat scans and all the rest of it. All they're looking at is electrical pulses through your various organs. And if you have this electrical field around you, it's just a magnetic field, but like anything, you have electrons then that are moving through the air in front of you, and you have electrons that are moving through the air behind you. And you are literally affecting your environment beyond your actual physicality. And what you do with that and the energy that you're putting out, because you're literally putting out energy, is what is going to be felt. And so you got to remember, you are leading with energy just as much as you're leaving energy behind.

 

Wendy

That's deep. And it warrants part two.

 

Tyler

Let's do part two. Wendy.

 

Wendy

Let's do part two. And it also leads me into let's keep these listeners awake as well. Let's fire back up those neurons.

 

Tyler

Let's get those synapses firing, folks. Come on. Let's make this conversation count.

 

Wendy

I want to know the conversation that counted for you, Tyler.

 

Tyler

I've had so many, but when you said it, the first one that popped to mind was the conversation I had with my doctor, mentor and father figure growing up, Dr. Bob Corbett. I had a medical incident when I was 17 that left the left side of my body paralyzed. And I distinctly remember about a month and a half afterwards being in his office crying because my face didn't work, my body didn't work. My acting career was over, and being so frustrated with Western medicine. Here we are in the 21st century, and they can't diagnose what happened to me. Was it a stroke? Was it a bell's policy? Was it a mini stroke? Why did somebody say I had oh... I can't even remember. It just seemed so bizarre and it didn't even sound like a thing that could happen. A full body. I don't even remember. Anyway. Nobody could tell me what it was. And Bob sat me down. He said, Think of the blessing that is. I said, how is not knowing what the hell happened to me a blessing, sir? And he went, if you had a diagnosis, there would be one course of treatment which may or may not work. You had a stroke. There's nothing we can do. But we don't know what you had. So now we have the freedom to try anything. And if you can try, anything could work. In fact, everything could work. So let's start trying things and see what works. And then he quoted Edison. Edison didn't find a thousand ways not to make a light bulb right until he found the one that did. Bob has been a steady oarsman for me in my life, and what I appreciate the most about him, he really is an oarsman. He allows me to captain my ship. What's the course that we want to set, Captain? But he will be steady at the hand. If I tell him where due west. He will say, Very well, due west. He'll look at me and he says, you understand that looks like it could very possibly be bad weather. I'll say, yes. He goes, okay, let's weather this storm, then. We'll batten down the hatches. And I will keep this boat due west. And I have always been in great admiration of him and I've tried to pattern and emulate him as best I can in that he was one of the first people to teach me to like, I don't believe in finding the positive in life.

 

Wendy

Is that if it's just never big enough?

 

Tyler

It's not even that. What it is, is that my father passed away at six. I don't think that was a positive. I'm not going to be like, hey, dad died. Good for that. No, there's not a positive. But what I do look for is the grace in situations. There is grace in everything. My father passing away created an opportunity for me to have multiple father figures in my life, at least ten, Bob being one of them. My medical incident gave me a chance to reframe and refocus what was important to me. Really crystallize friendships, because I had incredible friend support when that happened. And in high school, that's rare too, right? I was a freak. I had a face that didn't work. The worst that my friends did was they'd make me laugh because I made this sound because I couldn't close my mouth. And it was comical. I don't blame them. It was irritating sometimes, but that was the worst that I got. How dare my friends try to make me laugh in a time of great tragedy for me.

 

Wendy

That's what friends do.

 

Tyler

That is what friends do. I have always looked for the grace and a lot of that came from the lessons that I learned from Bob and continually learned from Bob. He's struggling currently medically, and I'm watching what he's going through and again, how he's handling it with grace because it's got to be so frustrating for him and to witness his partial acceptance, but also pushing of experimentation, like, what is the solution? I think that's the thing that I like the most about him too. And one of the things that I learned is there's a problem? What is the solution and how can I be proactive with it? And that first conversation, 17 years old in his office, isn't this a gift? And having him look at now you have multiple solutions instead of one has influenced me for the rest of my life.

 

Wendy

What did work?

 

Tyler

I don't know which one. It was the kitchen sink. It was the kitchen sink that did it.

 

Wendy

Good.

 

Tyler

Bob is a doctor of chiropractic. His wife Joanne is a doctor of chiropractic who is a holistic practitioner. She's also an acupuncturist. So like with Jo, I was doing laser acupuncture, chiropractic and Eastern herbs and medicines. With Bob. I was doing chiropractic. They recommended me to an incredible physiotherapist. So I was doing physio. I was also taking modern medications to encourage synaptic regrowth and get neurons firing again, I did so much, and for a year I was scanned, prodded, poked and all kinds of weird stuff. And I don't know what worked, but it all kind of blended together. And did my face works now? My body works now.

 

Wendy

You've got quite a fine face, I have to say.

 

Tyler

Why, thank you, Wendy.

 

Wendy

When you revealed how old you were, I was like, what?

 

Tyler

I drink a lot of water and I moisturize. And I have a six year old daughter who keeps me spry and youthful. And I play hockey three times a week as a goaltender, so I'm never off the ice. So I get in my physical workouts and it keeps my mind sharp, I think. I hope.

 

Wendy

But they do say, don't they, that your physical health has a really big impact on everything else. So clearly it's working for you. Well, I'm just glad for Dr. Bob and it's just so heartwarming that you're still in touch with him all these years later. I don't know anybody that has got a doctor that stuck around that long.

 

Tyler

Well, it's funny because, again, I've been in touch with a lot of these gentlemen who helped guide me in my early years. Not as often as I'd like to, but I still talked to my physician, Dr. Spackman. I played in a band with his son for a couple of years, Dr. Bob and I.. I took him when I was made master of my lodge. Bob, he was the first person I reached out to and asked him to be at the ceremony. He influenced my life so much that not only do I feel the need to pay it forward, because a lot of the lessons that I teach from stage are things that I've learned from him, but I also feel an obligation to pay back. Like, I wouldn't have the life that I have. He was the first one to introduce me to self development. He bought me a ticket to Dr. John Demartini's breakthrough experience, and I didn't understand how profound that would be until later. And I didn't fully appreciate what kind of a gift that was until later in life. But that's the kind of man that he was. He was like, this is the thing I'm going to invest in you. This is a thing that was important for me, that I think will be important for you, and that's put me on a path. Right. I wouldn't have had the opportunity to speak on Tony Robin stage in Dallas if it were not for that seed that was planted over 20 years ago. And we never know.

 

Wendy

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

Tyler

Trained public speaker here.

 

Wendy

(Laughs)

 

 

 

 

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Many Ward write my book cuddle monster

Episode 29 – Mandy Ward

Mandy Ward is a book mentor, helping people to write their own books under the company ‘Write my book’. Mandy is also an author herself, including the popular children’s book ‘The Cuddle Monster’.

Sarah Townsend copywriter survival skills for freelancers

Episode 30 – Sarah Townsend

Sarah Townsend is a freelance copywriter and best-selling author of the book ‘survival skills for freelancers’. In this episode, we discuss the importance of conversations in the freelance world, and how things can lead to many opportunities…

Paul Furlong visual branding advertiser videographer

Episode 31 – Paul Furlong

Paul Furlong is part of Opus Media, producing TV advertising, videos, and photographs for businesses. He knows a thing or two about visual branding, and is considered a advertising guru!

Masami Sato founder B1G1

Episode 32 – Masami Sato

Masami Sato set up the B1G1 initiative. Helping businesses to do good by giving back. When was the last time you gave, freely Not for tax reasons. And not because you felt awkward at a raffle. We could all always do more.

Ann Hobbs Forward thinking publishing

Episode 33 – Ann Hobbs

Ann Hobbs helps people to self-publish their books with Forward Thinking Publishing. She is also a coach and author of her book ‘Kick ass your life’, helping people to push through adversity.

Kim-Adele Platts Career development coach

Episode 34 – Kim-Adele Platts

Kim-Adele Platts, Career Development Coach. Making Conversations about Leadership Count! If you don’t believe in yourself how do you expect others to? This was a question and topic that surfaced during this powerful and insightful conversation with Kim-Adele Platts.

Marina Hauer branding specialist for coaches

Episode 35 – Marina Hauer

Marina Hauer is a branding specialist for independent coaches. Are you using three different brand ‘voices’ in your marketing efforts? We’re making conversations about branding count!

David Smith MBE paralympian

Episode 36 – David Smith

David Smith MBE is a Paralympian in the sport Boccia. Do you know what Boccia is? David tells you in this episode all about the most inclusive Paralympian sport that helps people with their independence.

Graham Nash accountant

Episode 37 – Graham Nash

Graham Nash, BusinessWise Accountants, has worked in many fields over the years and the one common denominator has been helping business turnaround.

Ian Genius sales coach

Episode 38 – Ian Genius

Ian Genius is the sales coach to help you gain confidence in sales. His Ingenious technique helps clients see the value of your best package to COMMAND a higher price.

Jennie Erikson voice over artist

Episode 39 – Jennie Eriksen

Jennie Eriksen is a voice over artist, her company name is Lovely Voice. She helps her intended listener to learn by being able to bring characters to life.

Stella Da Silva employability trainer

Episode 40 – Stella Da Silva

Stella Da Silva talks about vocations in this episode, as a specialist employability trainer she shares her insider knowledge.
What skills do you need to be employable?

Hypnotist Jonathan Chase

Episode 41 – Jonathan Chase

Look into my eyes! You will feel very sleepy! You guessed it, we’re having one of our many conversations that count with hypnosis star Jonathan Chase.

Brynne Tillman social sales link

Episode 42 – Brynne Tillman

Brynne Tillman is a social selling expert. Her company ‘Social Sales Link’ teaches the importance of connection for selling on LinkedIn and other platforms.

Ruth Driscoll

Episode 43 – Ruth Driscoll

Ruth Driscoll supports people through toxic relationships. Her company the ‘life liberator’ takes her personal experiences to help others.

Rob Begg mindset coach

Episode 44 – Rob Begg

Rob Begg is a results based mindset coach to business leaders & teams. In this episode, he talks about your ego and self-limiting beliefs many of us hold.

Dan Knowlton video advertising

Episode 45 – Dan Knowlton

Dan Knowlton and his brother Lloyd run Knowlton – a social media and video advertising company who create unique, funny content to stop the scroll.

Sudhir Kumar

Episode 46 – Sudhir Kumar

Sudhir Kumar is an expert in social selling to grow your business, he’s written a book ‘Being Human: Marketing & Social Selling in a Digital World’.

Episode 47 – Ann Page

Ann Page is a lawyer who helps other lawyers with her courses. She teaches valuable business skills and teaches the importance of avoiding jargon.

Joe Chatham networking

Episode 48 – Joe Chatham

Joe Chatham set up USA 500. It’s an exclusive member-based organization focusing on sharing his expertise in marketing relationships and networking.

Larry Long Jnr

Episode 49 – Larry Long Jnr

Larry Long Jnr is a sales coach that helps give people, teams, and organizations the motivation to go from good to great.

pete cann laughter man

Episode 50 – Pete Cann

Larry Long Jnr is a sales coach that helps give people, teams, and organizations the motivation to go from good to great.

Hear what people are saying about the show

I love this podcast. The guests you have on all bring something new to the conversation and definitely thought-provoking.

Sometimes this means I change something I do, or something I would say, and other times it’s a real opportunity for reflection.

Thanks for sharing your guests with us Wendy, the podcasts are brilliant.

Paula Senior

I always enjoy listening to Wendy’s Making Conversations Count podcast and admire her talent for drawing out people’s stories and getting to the heart of things for finding out what makes them tick.

We all have pivotal moments and Wendy manages to find the right parts, showcasing the reasons why someone is who they are.

It’s those details that we connect to and come to more understanding of why people do what they do.

Heidi Medina

Love this podcast series. It’s a great idea to have a theme of ‘pivotal conversations’ and the variety of guests from massively different backgrounds keeps it fresh and interesting.

Wendy is a natural host and makes people feel at ease to share their stories.

Andrew Deighton

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