From poverty to pushing (legal) drugs: billionaire on building a business on Amazon

We're Making Conversations about building an Amazon business Count! (Episode 71)

Episode 71 - Shaahin Cheyene

Have you thought about your next big biz adventure? We’re making conversations about building a business on Amazon count with Shaahin Cheyene!


building a business on Amazon episode with Shaahin Cheyene

Big take-away quote from this conversation about building a business on Amazon:

“You can’t do it (achieve greatness) without financial freedom.

And we’re so inundated with all this thought of, ‘Making money’s bad, the people who steal money are cheating, money is the root of all evil. 

The guy who said, ‘Money is the root of all evil’ didn’t have any”…

Shaahin Cheyene, Making Conversations Count (February 2022)

(Hard of hearing? Transcript here).

Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here.) 

Bustling to billionaire

How did this man go from living in poverty to achieving the American dream?

After growing up in what he felt was mediocrity, this week’s episode’s guest decided that enough was enough and left Iran for the US.

Once there, he invested all his energy into building a legal alternative to ecstasy- which is still one of America’s most popular rave culture drugs.

He has managed to turn around his life by starting small and working hard until he reached the top of the earning ranks.

He’s now living the life many of us dream of, hanging with celebrities, driving fast and expensive cars, and flying around the world first class or in private jets.

This episode will explore how Iranian immigrant Shaahin achieved success in such an unlikely manner, as well as what we can learn from him about entrepreneurship and perseverance.

Wanting to reach the dizzy heights of financial freedom? 

The episode talks all about small steps leading to big results. One step at a time. 

It’s not all that noticeable at the time you take it, but the wider impact if can have is huge.

Let’s take the first step today.

Are you using conversations as part of your strategy in business?

Well, don’t worry – there’s great news!

Wendy‘s currently running a 12 week blueprint programme which outlines her ‘four R formula’.

Want to overcome that fear of rejection or guide your teams towards having better conversations?

Well, then you need to click this.

12 week success blueprint artwork

Sign up now to make sure you don’t miss the opportunity to improve every aspect of your lead-generation.

Using decades of knowledge and experience, Wendy can help you get the results you want, quickly.

Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts now by clicking this:

Listen on Apple Podcasts

A billionaire in dreams only at the beginning

Growing up in a poor family in Iran, Shaahin had a difficult upbringing.

“I had nowhere to live, I had no money and all I did was, I had to first find shelter, so I found an abandoned Lincoln Continental, I slept in the back seat of this Lincoln Continental. 

Then later, as that developed, I learned how you could convince brokers to give you the codes to newly-developed buildings, if you feigned interest in them, and then sneak in late at night while these buildings are under construction, and crash and then wake up.”

He was determined to make a better life for himself, so he left Iran and came to the US in search of opportunity.

The new legal rave drug

Once here, he invested all his money into building a legal alternative to ecstasy.

This turned out to be a wise investment- his product became one of America’s most popular rave culture drugs.

Fairly soon, he was making friends in the right places, thanks to his identifying a gap in the market and understanding how to fill it!

“I realised that I was really bad at crime during my adolescence, something I’d learned in grade school from selling nudie magazines and cigarettes and liquor in school just to make ends meet, my own ends meet. 

And I decided that I was not going to sell drugs as I got older but it hit me that, “Hey, if I could come up with a legal alternative to ecstasy, the biggest party drug of the time, it would be huge”, and that’s what I did.”

Listen to the episode to learn how he managed to get attention for this disruptive product and how he was able to succeed where other products have failed.

Shaahin has managed to turn his life around by starting small and working hard until he reached the top of the earning ranks.

“I remember when we broke $1 billion in revenue. As a teenager, I had no clue, no high school education, I had a grade school education, and shortly thereafter, a few years, I had broken $1 billion in revenue, pre-internet, pre-social media, Newsweek, London Observer, all the press was out there covering this phenomenon that had happened. And I remember thinking to myself, ‘Holy crap, man!’ “

He’s now living the life many of us dream of, hanging with celebrities, driving fast and expensive cars, and flying around the world first class or in private.

We also learn how he managed to put his stamp on the fast growing alternative tobacco industry. He basically invented the electronic tobacco cigarette lighter.

We’re not sure what you’d actually call it but he explains it much better than we can, in the episode.

Have you clicked the play button on the player yet?

The billionaire formula written in book form

Back to his idea of building a legal alternative to ecstasy.

It turned out to be a wise investment.

His product became one of America’s most popular rave culture drugs.

He’s written all about it in his book “Billion: How I Became King Of The Thrill Pill Cult”

Scroll for link to buy it via Amazon.

Billionaire Amazon business expert Shaahin Cheyene has managed to turn his life around by starting small and working hard until he reached the top of the earning ranks.

He’s also focused on educating himself by reading inspirational literature from Richard Koch and Alan Watts.

Building a business on Amazon with Shaahin Cheyene

Watch the episode promo!

Managed to catch the previous episode yet? Click play on the player below to listen!

So what’s the secret to success?

When it comes to business, Shaahin knows the importance of using leverage and systems to facilitate success.

He modelled himself on the same principles used by successful businessmen like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos.

These principles have helped him achieve great things in a relatively short space of time.

Listen to the episode to find out more about how Shaahin applies these principles in his own life and business.

Even design can have an impact on your business success

In the world of design, less is more.

This concept has been around for centuries, yet it’s still as relevant as ever.

When it comes to creating a successful design, simplicity is key.

People respond better to minimalism – it’s clean, elegant, and leaves room for imagination.

Too much clutter can be overwhelming and distracting. By keeping your design simple, you make it easier for people to understand and appreciate your work.

Shaahin makes a point about this during this latest conversation around building a business on Amazon;

“And you look at design where it’s an amateur guy, maybe it’s a little mum and pop restaurant, or something like that, and there’s just a ton of [bleep] there, and you might not be a design person, but you know it’s not nice.

And the reason is that all our brilliance comes between the moments in between thoughts.”

(Full transcript here)

Building a business on Amazon with Shaahin Cheyene 2

Business success is mastery of your space

In this episode, Wendy and her guest Shaahin explore the difference maker in any business story – mastery.

“I went onto the Amazon platform, learning to master it and to build on what Bezos has built, this amazing disruptive platform. 

And now, I teach people how to do that..”

During this episode you’ll learn:

  • What Shaahin did to make the start on his new journey
  • How you can model Shaahin’s process to launch your own successful business on Amazon
  • Some useful tips on leverage
  • A couple of good book recommendations to inspire

Do you have any tips for how you’ve built your own business using Amazon, or any thoughts on applying ecommerce and other platforms?

We’d love to mention them and you on a future episode.


Shaahin’s advice for building a purposeful life, securing financial freedom and enjoying a successful business on Amazon

Shaahin has read lots of books on mindset, success and living purposefully and with financial freedom.

Here’s his advice for you if you want to do the same.

“Life is whatever you make it, it’s the story that you write. 

And no matter where you are, no matter what you do, no matter what position you find yourself in, fact, you can change it, you can change your life”

Building a business on Amazon Shaahin

So, Wendy’s takeaway from the conversation in this episode about building a billionaire business on Amazon with Shaahin Cheyene?

“Shaahin’s blown my mind.

Just the Alan Watts conference speech that I listened to was worth the investment of this conversation alone.

And how generous that he’s giving away his course to you, the listeners, for free!..”

Did you enjoy this conversation about building a business on Amazon and Shaahin’s thoughts around how to take small steps towards big financial rewards?

Wil you now consider taking your own small steps in your own business?

Maybe your first small step could be getting hold of Shaahin’s free gift?

What have you got to lose?

We love to hear from you.

Please do let us know your take-aways from this episode by leaving a comment at

Want to carry on the conversation with Shaahin?

Learn more about Shaahin:

During the Iranian Revolution of 1978, Shahin’s family had to escape to survive and ended up finally migrating to Los Angeles, Ca .

At 15 years old Shaahin left home with nothing but the clothes on his back and created over a BILLION dollars in revenue by inventing the legendary smart drug known as HERBAL ECSTACY.

These childhood experiences had a major impact on his perspective of freedom, hard work and entrepreneurship. Later Shaahin went on to invent Digital Vaporization (the forerunner to today’s vapes) and start a number of successful businesses with a couple notable failures.  Today, he is the Founder and CEO of Accelerated Intelligence, Inc. a major Amazon FBA seller with millions in sales, the lead coach at Amazon Mastery where he teaches entrepreneurs how to CRUSH IT! on the Amazon platform and an active YouTube creator.

Shaahin is considered one of the leading global minds on what’s next in e-commerce,  Amazon and the internet. He is described as the “Willy Wonka Of Generation X” by the London Observer and Newsweek and is one of the most forward thinkers in business – with his Amazon Mastery Course he acutely recognizes trends and patterns early on the Amazon platform to help others understand how these shifts impact markets and consumer behavior.



Hack And Grow Rich:


New to this site? Learn more about Making Conversations Count podcast:



“Making Conversations Count” is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.

Missed our previous episodes?

You can catch up with any of the other guests we’ve been making conversations count with, here.

If you’re on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.

Once you’ve listened, remember to leave us a review



Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!

Follow the show on Spotify, here!

You are following the show on socials, right?

Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!

Here are the links just in case you need them:






Listen to other episodes on your favourite platform…

Listen on Apple Podcasts

Fancy repeating the experience of making conversations count? Here's another chance to hear a popular previous conversation - on a similar theme to the one you just heard.

Full Episode Transcript - Conversation about building a billionaire business on Amazon - "Making Conversations Count"


Making Conversations about building a business Count




Shaahin Cheyene, Accelerated Intelligence



00:00:00: Introduction
00:03:06: Shaahin’s story
How to step out of the ordinary, plus a BIG OFFER!
00:12:57: Building a multi-pillared foundation
The Pareto Principle of the 80/20 rule
Design your life with plenty of white space
The impact of a positive outlook
Shaahin’s pivotal conversation
Final thoughts


Interview Transcription

Wendy Harris: In today’s conversation with Shaahin Cheyene, I get straight to asking him how he became the king of the thrill pill cult.  Now effectively, he made his money through a legal form of ecstasy, so to speak.  But in actual fact, Shaahin comes from a very Zenlike perspective and values.  Carry on listening as we’re going to be Making Conversations about Cheap Thrills and Legal Pills Count.

What’s new, Wendy Woo?  Well, we’ve had a review in from The Intuitist saying, “I love this show, thank you.  I’ve really enjoyed listening to all the ideas that you put forward”.  Thank you so much, we really appreciate these reviews that come in.  It just fills us up on the team.  If there’s something that you want us to do on the show, if there’s a topic that you want us to cover, or if there’s a guest that you would like us to interview, let us know and we’ll do our best to bring that to you.

If you’ve been doing lots of listening lately, like I have, there’s been an underlying story filtering through in all of the content and campaigns that I am seeing and hearing, and that is about personal branding and how to use content and repurpose content, and to really be yourself.  So, here’s my take, and this really applies to picking up the phone and being yourself. 

For me, social media is one of those things that we need to be doing to broadcast ourselves, and it can be a bit of a time-suck.  But for me, the real joy in audio, in sending voice notes on WhatsApp or LinkedIn messaging and even better, to pick up the phone, is that I can seriously show people that I am interested and that I care about them.  That’s my little takeaway today.

So, Shaahin, I have to ask you, you clearly are very good at starting a revolution around what you do, and that’s all about conversations.  How did you fall into becoming the king of the thrill pill cult; how did that all start?

Shaahin Cheyene: Let’s do it, great question.  We just started conversationally.  That’s great, I love that.  So, as my story goes, I started when my family and myself in tow left Iran as refugees, arriving eventually in the United States.  We were middle class in Iran, landed in United States, learned that we were not only poor, but we were second-class citizens.  And my father worked hard jobs, worked at pizza places, worked at dry cleaners for a good part of 30 years.  My mum was a homemaker, one-income family, just trying to make ends meet.  And they managed to scrape together enough money, as immigrants do, to purchase a home in an area that was up and coming.

As this started to happen, I started to notice all this wealth around me that wasn’t there before, not from us, but from the people in the surrounding areas.  I thought to myself, “Man, by the time I’m 15, I would love to have a piece of this”.  So, I made a conscious decision, because my parents didn’t have any solutions to how I could find this newly-desired financial freedom, or aspiration for wealth; my folks were like, “You can become a doctor, and that’s it”, so I took off, packed my bags and left home at 15.

I had nowhere to live, I had no money and all I did was, I had to first find shelter, so I found an abandoned Lincoln Continental, I slept in the back seat of this Lincoln Continental.  Then later, as that developed, I learned how you could convince brokers to give you the codes to newly-developed buildings, if you feigned interest in them, and then sneak in late at night while these buildings are under construction, and crash and then wake up.

I would eat at the community college, because they had free food, and there I met my first mentor, an incredible guy, I write about him in my book, Billion: How I Became King of the Thrill Pill Cult, which is out now on Amazon.  Check it out if you guys like the audible —

Wendy Harris: We’ll stick it on the resource page, because we love to share books.

Shaahin Cheyene: Yeah, it’s out in the UK now, so I’m impressed that the audible book is in the UK.  I had some people there reaching out to me, so that’s cool.  And, I got involved in the electronic music scene.  I found a mentor, got involved in the electronic music scene, the rave scene, the dance scene that was going on in those days.  I still didn’t have a place to live, I was eating what I could get.  I managed to sneak my way into the clubs, I managed to get myself a girlfriend. 

In those days, I remember having no money and I looked around me and I thought, “Man, the only people making money are the drug dealers”.  Supply and demand; I was at the right place at the right time, because the supply of drugs coming from England and Holland had completely dried up, with the Reaganomics and the trickle-down economics and the Nancy Reagan Just Say No and DARE campaigns, the effects that they had on this generation of law enforcement, they’d stopped the flow of drugs.  So, there was a huge demand.  This electronic music scene was blowing up, and nobody to supply them, so I thought that, “Man, I should do that”.

I realised that I was really bad at crime during my adolescence, something I’d learned in grade school from selling nudie magazines and cigarettes and liquor in school just to make ends meet, my own ends meet.  And I decided that I was not going to sell drugs as I got older but it hit me that, “Hey, if I could come up with a legal alternative to ecstasy, the biggest party drug of the time, it would be huge”, and that’s what I did.

I found an unconventional distribution for it, selling it through drug dealers initially at nightclubs, and raves, I went to them and I’d say, “Hey, man, you’re out of inventory.  Sell my stuff”.  I managed to convince them, because I was this invincible teenage kid.  And as the story goes, I walk into my office now six months later, I’ve got over 200 employees, offices in 32 countries, collection of exotic cars, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche, all of it, planes, trains, automobiles, the whole thing, hanging around with celebrities, going to A-rate parties, the whole nine yards.

I remember when we broke $1 billion in revenue.  As a teenager, I had no clue, no high school education, I had a grade school education, and shortly thereafter, a few years, I had broken $1 billion in revenue, pre-internet, pre-social media, Newsweek, London Observer, all the press was out there covering this phenomenon that had happened.  And I remember thinking to myself, “Holy crap, man!”  First off, I didn’t know how much $1 billion was, literally.  I knew we’d broken a big number, I didn’t know what $1 billion meant.

Wendy Harris: You could write it down with all the zeros, but then what does that look like?

Shaahin Cheyene: No, I didn’t even know how many zeros to put, I didn’t even know what it meant.

Wendy Harris: Wow!

Shaahin Cheyene: And the second thought I remember having was, “Man, I’ve got to hire a [bleep] accountant”.  So, I started interviewing for accountants.  This is an important lesson for your viewers.  I learned very quickly that accountants are not, you guys should write this down, they are not the guys that count the cash that’s piled up in duffle bags, between the duffle bags filled with pills, in the back of your office, that’s not what accountants do.

Wendy Harris: They’re not bean-counters!

Shaahin Cheyene: That is not what they do, yeah.  And after learning that from several frightened accountants who walked in and rapidly walked out, never to be heard from again, I started to get my business together.  From there, I exited that company, went into developing all the technology for digital vaporisation, created the first portable vaporisers, which is the forerunner to what you see today and the e-cigs. 

From there, I went onto the Amazon platform, learning to master it and to build on what Bezos has built, this amazing disruptive platform.  And now, I teach people how to do that.  I teach people how to create meaningful Amazon companies, products that will change lives, and in the meantime be able to travel and give the middle finger to their boss and live the lifestyle that they know they can, without having to sell their hours, which is the greatest crime imposed on entrepreneurs today.

Wendy Harris: There’s very little freedom in being an entrepreneur, is there, because you imagine that you’re going to be able to do what you want when you want, but then the actual responsibility of a lot of the activity that goes into running a business kind of eats away at that time.  So, it’s great that you’ve been able to do that whilst not being a drug dealer or money launderer!

Shaahin Cheyene: Yeah, but yet being all of those things!  Look, here’s what I think.  I think that you can build your life any way that you want, and a good friend of mine, this guy, Stuart Wilde, he was a British metaphysician and author, one of the original guys who started the New Age movement.  And he was actually a Sicilian-born guy, moved to England and became one of the most well-known writers in this New Age movement.

One of the things that he taught me was that we have the innate ability to step out of what he called tick-tock, which is the world of the people who operate the trains and drive the trash trucks, and all that ordinary-type reality, and to be able to create an extraordinary life for ourselves.  But you can’t do it without financial freedom.  And we’re so inundated with all this thought of, “Making money’s bad, the people who steal money are cheating, money is the root of all evil”.  He used to say, “The guy who said, ‘Money is the root of all evil’ didn’t have any”.

So, we have to first break free of those limiting mindsets that are keeping us down, and then figure out what we’re great at and how we can get into flow.  That’s what we teach to our Amazon master course.  And by the way, anybody listening to this or watching this, I assume you have a YouTube channel as well, or is this just audio; do you do audio primarily?

Wendy Harris: We dabbled with YouTube, but I really don’t do YouTube.  It’s podcast only.

Shaahin Cheyene: Okay, cool.  Awesome.  So, for any of you guys listening to this, I have a one-hour course where I teach you how to empower yourself, to create an Amazon company with little or no money.  It’s normally $200, that’s dollars, £200.  I’m going to give this to you guys for zero dollars, if you just mention Wendy Harris.  Use “Wendy Harris” in the subject line.  I’m going to give you my direct email.  If you guys want coaching from me, want mentorship from me, want to reach out to me, I’m going to give you my email for the absolute cost of zero.  If you don’t want to, you’ll never hear from us again.

Email me, use “Wendy Harris” in the subject heading, I’ll give you the $200, one-hour course for free, teaching you how to create a business, how to find a product.  That is  Where I was going with that is the first thing you need to do is you need to break out of your scarcity mindset.  You’ve got to break out of the principle that you’re going to be selling your hours for the rest of your [bleep] life, you’ve got to get out of that.

Once you get out of that, then you think foundationally, Wendy.  We start to think, “If I put all my eggs in one basket and that basket falls, the eggs are going to break, I’m going to be left with scrambled eggs, that’s it, not very nice”.  So, you’ve got to build the foundation, you’ve got to have multiple streams of income.  We teach that.  I teach you buy cashflow-positive real estate.  We teach, go out there and invest in something that’s going to give you compounding interest.  And continue to go out there and do your career, do your job, because that’s a pillar until you don’t need to anymore.

So, you have to think foundationally, and when you think that way and you think one of those pillars is an ecommerce business, like an Amazon business, then you think to yourself, “Man, you can never have a bad day”.  Now I wake up and look, some days our Amazon sales are less than others; not lately.  In the last few years, Amazon’s been on fire.  Other days I wake up and I go, “Man, the real estate market is on fire”.  Other days I go, “Wow, the real estate market is too hot for me to buy anything more now, I’m going to hold off”.

But every day, there is at least one or more of those pillars that holds up the rest by orders of magnitude, and that’s how you have to start to think.

Wendy Harris: But you see, what you’ve done there is you’ve intentionally said, “It’s too hot”, not, “It’s not my thing”.  You’ve not positioned it as a negative, because it was intentional that you don’t need to do anything with that right now, because of the activity that’s going on in the market.  And I think is where we’re too quick to use negative language that actually holds us back, like saying, “I’m only going to be successful if I work hard”.  Everybody works hard, don’t they, and not everybody is successful?

Shaahin Cheyene: Not everybody works hard, some people work smart.

Wendy Harris: It’s about making those subtle shifts in what it is that you do to give you that dream and that vision.

Shaahin Cheyene: You British people have a lot of good ones.  So, another great British author who I’m a huge fan of and a student of his work, Richard Koch, who wrote The 80/20 Principle; have you read that?

Wendy Harris: Yes.

Shaahin Cheyene: Spectacular book.  And Koch talks about the Pareto Principle, how 20% of our efforts bring about 80% of our results.  In fact, I have to tell you, I often tell people there’s no hack to hard work.  You have to go out there and work hard, especially when you’re starting up.  But at the end of the day, it’s not the hard work that brings about the result, it’s the placement of the lever where you use the least amount of pressure to create the most amount of leverage, the most amount of results.  That’s how you succeed.

You don’t succeed by going out there and working your fingers to the bone, no matter what, and keep getting knocked down, you keep getting back up, then you get knocked down some more; that’s not what’s causing you to succeed.  What’s causing you to succeed is that when you get knocked down, you learn, “Hey, there’s too much friction here, too much noise here.  I keep running into a wall.  What if I move an inch to the left?” and it’s that inch, that little spot that presents the opportunity for you to create these efficiencies.  And those efficiencies are the systems, the algorithms that create your success, that create that 20% that gives you the 80% in results.

As you get better at these kinds of things, think about all the people who are systems people.  You create systems as you get better, and these little micromovements and these little tweaks to how you do things, you start to succeed more and more.  People will go, “Well, he worked hard”.  Well, yeah, he worked hard, but it’s not the hard work that caused it, it’s not the fact that you walk 50 miles.  It’s the fact that one inch in that journey made all the difference.

I can’t tell you how many people look at Elon Musk, systems guy, Jeff Bezos, systems guy, Steve Jobs, systems guy.  These guys built efficiency in what we take for granted.  When you look at those guys and you bring them a problem, it’s not that they don’t work hard.  Elon Musk notoriously sleeps on the factory floor, which I did as well, not that I’m any Elon Musk; but you do that, but you do that for a different reason.  It’s not the sleeping on the factory floor that’s making him the millions.  It’s the waking up and that one little tweak that, “Hey, we’re going to make the spaceship just a little bit more aerodynamic and now it’s going to have more range.  We’re going to create a battery that’s going to have a longer range than any other car”.  It’s these micromovements.

So, the natural question becomes, “How do you find what these are?  How do you discover what these micromovements are?” and the answer is, you need to be in what Steven Kotler calls The Flow State.  Csikszentmihalyi very famously, in his book, Flow, wrote about this.  You have to have enough space in your life where these ideas can come to you.  How do you create that space?  By foundational thinking.  This foundation where you have multiple streams of income, MSIs, recurring revenue streams, leads you to having white space, good design, I talk about this often.

Did you ever see an Apple billboard or an Apple advertisement?  There’s nothing on it.  It’s just a picture of one thing.  It’s a phone and white space.

Wendy Harris: It’s very clean.

Shaahin Cheyene: Very clean.  And you look at design where it’s an amateur guy, maybe it’s a little mum and pop restaurant, or something like that, and there’s just a ton of [bleep] there, and you might not be a design person, but you know it’s not nice.  And the reason is that all our brilliance comes between the moments in between thoughts.  And the more space that you have, the more white space you have in how you design your life, the better decisions you make, because the more choices you have.  The one thing we know is, we can’t always make the right decision.  But what we do know is the more choices you have, the better decisions you make.

Wendy Harris: Amen!  As simple as that, and it’s not always the easiest of things to actually implement, is it?  One of the things that I noticed myself personally to start to create that subtle shift, was waking up in the morning and the first thought being, “Today’s going to be a great day”, rather than, “Oh, what have I got to get done today?”  That subtle shift means that every day is a great day, and it’s what you do with that day then that then goes on to have that greater impact and that snowball effect.  So, that’s one thing that everybody can do right away.

Shaahin Cheyene: Yeah.  And to your point, I would take it one step further and say, “I’m going to make it a great day today”, because you’re the one impacting that change.  Because, invariably what happens is people say, “It’s going to be a great day today”, and they put that out there in the world and they want to approach it with that mindset, but then something happens; that bird comes and [bleep] on your car.  It happens, it’s life, life can be [bleep] life can be difficult.  Life is full of [bleep]. 

Everywhere you turn, there is an [bleep], especially now during COVID, there are more and more [bleep].  It’s almost like COVID came and all the [bleep] came!  Has somebody shaken the grass and let all the [bleep] out?  All the [bleep] are out!  So, life has a way of shaking you up.  So, if you go out there and you say, “Well, it’s going to be a great day”, yeah, that’s cool.  And it’s cool if you stay in your bubble, you put up that bubble around you where nothing gets in, and you kind of believe that.

But eventually stuff starts chipping away at you.  The birds [bleep] on your car right after you got the car washed, the guy at the coffee place spills the coffee on you, the mechanic rips you off on the car bill, the wife or husband’s yelling at you, the kid takes a poop in his car seat.  All these things happen in life.

Wendy Harris: You’ve got to laugh in adversity, but it can hurt.

Shaahin Cheyene: There you go.  So, the great philosopher and Zen scholar, Alan Watts, are you familiar with Alan Watts at all, or his work?

Wendy Harris: No.

Shaahin Cheyene: Once again, one of yours.

Wendy Harris: UK guys?

Shaahin Cheyene: Yeah, so for any of you guys who don’t know Alan Watts, check out his work.  It’s free on the internet.  His lectures are extraordinary.  He was a British philosopher who brought the concept of Zen mysticism to the United States and to the West, he made it very palatable.  And he was one of the most spectacular orators.  He later got involved in LSD and hung out with Timothy Leary and Ram Dass, and he became kind of a rock star in philosophical circles.  By the way, if you’re ever having a bad day, listen to Alan Watts, it will change your life.  And his stuff is free.  People have remixed it on Spotify, on YouTube; well worth a listen to.

But Watts quoted a guy named GK Chesterton, I believe.  Do you know, Wendy Harris, why angels fly?

Wendy Harris: My guess is because they have wings.

Shaahin Cheyene: “Angels fly because they take themselves lightly”, one of my favourite quotes of all time.  And it just means that if you approach life with that attitude, if you leave the house in the morning saying, “You know what, it might be a [bleep] day, it might be a great day, I have no expectations.  But I have all the tools to handle it and I’m going to laugh off whatever the [bleep] happens that I don’t like and some of the stuff I do like”.

You realise it’s not so bad.  The bird [bleep] on your car after you get a carwash, you have a hearty laugh about it; the kid poops in the car seat, you’re just, “There’s little Johnny again, pooping on things!”  Things take a different view and then, in fact, you do end up having a beautiful day.  The impact of the day, what’s happened, the actual physical manifestation of the day doesn’t change.  But what truly changes is your mindset about it, and I think that was the point that you were trying to drive through, and that’s a really valuable point, Wendy.

Wendy Harris: Intentional, actionable view and perspective on what we do have every day as a gift, isn’t it, is the present and being part of that?

Shaahin Cheyene: Yeah.

Wendy Harris: Big smiles all round.  Hey, we’re getting quite profound here today on this show.  I love it when a conversation takes you to wherever it needs to go.

Shaahin Cheyene: Yeah, but if I can make you listen to Alan Watts, my work is done today.  You’ve got to listen to him.  I cannot believe you have not heard of him; he is extraordinary.  And now, more and more young people listen to him.  I write about him again in my book, Billion: How I Became King of the Thrill Pill Cult, so anybody that’s interested, check out Billion: How I Became King of the Thrill Pill Cult.  You can get it in the UK, in the United States, all over the world on Amazon.  If you want to listen to a chapter of it, you can listen on Stitcher, Spotify, wherever podcasts are found, to see if you like the book.  Or, if I’m a complete [bleep], you can check that out too.

I also have a podcast, Wendy, called Hack And Grow Rich, where we teach unconventional paths to creating financial success.  Check us out on YouTube, Stitcher, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, wherever podcasts are found.

Wendy Harris: I reckon there’s been a few guests that have gone, “I don’t know if I’ve had a conversation that’s counted that’s had a pivotal moment, I’m going to have to think about it”.  Then they come back and they go, “Do you know, I’ve had more than one”, because when you really think about it, they can be coming at you from all sorts of places.  And this is the bit that I never know what’s coming at me next.  What was that one conversation like for you, Shaahin, and what happened?

Shaahin Cheyene: You mean the one conversation — so if I understand you correctly, what you’re asking me is, “Was there a conversation that you had where you didn’t think it amounted to much, but turns out that there was something significant there?”

Wendy Harris: Absolutely.

Shaahin Cheyene: Yeah, so that’s going to require some reflection.  But I can tell you that, with my first mentor, a guy named Edward Lawson, I write about him in my book, Billion: How I Became King of the Thrill Pill Cult, I had just met this guy, kind of a mysterious guy.  I’m a teenager and he’s got all these grand plans.  He’s explaining to me all the stuff that I could do, and I’m just thinking, “Man, it would be nice to have a hot meal.  It would be nice to finally have a place to live”, and he’s talking about changing the world, what Steve Jobs called, “Putting a dent in the universe”.

I remember my frustration with the conversation, because he was up here and I was way down there.  I was in survival, and he was in absolute earth-shifting, moving tectonic plates.  And he was that kind of a person, one of those incredible, charismatic characters, that could influence anybody in a room, and I use that word very consciously, because —

Wendy Harris: He’d entered your mind, not just universe.

Shaahin Cheyene: Yeah.  And I remember him taking me outside, seeing very clearly that I wasn’t moved by his words in that moment, and I said, “Look, how am I going to do any of this, how am I going to do all of this?  I don’t have any money, I don’t have enough to go buy a veggie burger outside, much less to change the world.  How am I going to put a dent in the universe without any money?

He very clearly took a pause and conveyed to me in very few words that I should take a look around me, and that everything around me was sold to somebody at some point in history; and that if I could learn the art of influence, that would be the one tool, the one ring to rule them all.  That would be the only thing you would need to have.  Because, with that tool, you wouldn’t need money.  Money is just one way to get from point A to point B, to get somebody to give you something, to get somebody to give you value; it is not the only way.  There are lots of other ways to get somebody to give you that thing that you need to get to where you want to go without money.  And I remember being increasingly frustrated. 

Then later that night, when I was asleep in the back seat of the Lincoln Continental with the pages of Think and Grow Rich taped with scotch tape to the top of the hood and reading it with a flashlight as I was trying to fall asleep, that I had that “a-ha” moment, that I realised that that’s the master key to everything, and that I would commit myself, for however long it took, it could be the rest of my life, to mastering the art of telling stories, to mastering the art of what Robert Cialdini in his book, Influence, calls influence, but more importantly, persuasion; being able to make the sale before you even meet the customer.

I teach this now, again, in my Amazon course.  How do you make a sale before the customer ever comes to your listing, before they even know about you or your product?  Learn that from me for free.  It’s normally $200.  Mention “Wendy Harris” in the subject line, email me.  This is my direct email, I check these emails:  I will give you the $200, one-hour course for free, teaching you how to find a product, how to start a company from anywhere in the world.  Do it for next to nothing which, Wendy, brings me to my purpose and mission in life right now, which is to inspire people to create predictable recurring revenue streams that never fail.

Wendy Harris: Modern society, and none of us want to be slaves to finances.  So, I would strongly urge everybody to go and email Shaahin.  I’m tempted myself to see what I will learn.

Shaahin Cheyene: Wendy, you have to say it in your Peaky Blinders voice!

Wendy Harris: Yeah!  By order of the Peaky Blinders, get yourself on that email thread!  Definitely, it’s got to be done.  And the thing is, it may not be the one thing that changes everything, but we pick up pieces from everywhere that we go and everything that we’re influenced by, and it’s those pieces that we gather, isn’t it, to be able to create the life that we want to live?

Shaahin Cheyene: Yeah.  It could be the one thing that changes everything, it could be what you want, it’s whatever you make it.  Life is whatever you make it, it’s the story that you write.  And no matter where you are, no matter what you do, no matter what position you find yourself in, fact, you can change it, you can change your life, now, this minute, this second, by taking a step and making a decision.  That’s it, that’s the first step, that’s all it takes, one step at a time.

Wendy Harris: Just do it, as that big brand says.

Shaahin Cheyene: Or don’t, just be happy with what you’ve got, be where you are, listen to lots of Alan Watts, read my book!

Wendy Harris: Find who you are and be that person.  There’s a lot of self-discovery that needs to happen, I think, than what we’re told we should be.

Shaahin Cheyene: Yeah.  You mentioned another great book which talks about that too, Shoe Dog, by Phil Knight, the “Just do it” Nike guy, spectacular book.  You know, this is one of the differences, Wendy, of successful people and people I find who are not successful, is that successful people study success.  So, if you want to be successful, stop poopooing on all these millionaires, all these billionaires.  Sure, there’s things that they do that you might not agree with, or might not like, but who cares?  You need to study their success if you’re not as successful as them.

Becoming a student of their success and suspending judgement on whatever your judgement is on their misdeeds, or whatever, that can be hugely impactful in your life.

Wendy Harris: I’ve found myself using an analogy quite often lately, when it comes to doing something new or creating a new habit, or forming new choices.  And I love to read, I love stories, I love telling stories, I love listening to stories.  That’s okay to a point.  And the point that I make there is, there’s no point in just collecting stories if you do nothing with them and you don’t take the lessons in those stories to something that you action.

So, the analogy that I have is that reading a book is like learning to drive your theory test, where you have to go and do all the health and safety papers and answer all the Highway Code.  But the only way that you’re ever going to learn to drive a car is actually get in the car and drive it, and that’s your life, the vehicle of your life.

Shaahin Cheyene: It’s true.  You can’t surf by reading magazines.  I learned that too.

Wendy Harris: Yeah.  Shaahin, thank you so much.  I am so pleased that Ed came into your life when he did and had that conversation with you, because that’s purely instrumental to a lot of the rest of your story, which is amazing.

Shaahin Cheyene: You’re the best, Wendy Harris, I appreciate you.  Thank you so much for having me on.

Wendy Harris: You’re an absolute star.

Shaahin Cheyene: Likewise, right back at you.

Wendy Harris: And there’s Shaahin, blown my mind, sent me off on lots of little rabbit warrens that I really enjoyed going down.  The Alan Watts conference speech that I listened to was worth that hour of time.  And how generous that he’s giving away his course to you, the listeners, for free!  Do make sure that you send him that email, because he’s a man of his word, and he’ll make sure that he sends you the details to get access to that.  That email address for you again is  What a great guy.

So, that was my key takeaway; what was yours?  Do let me know, pop us a message, use whatever social platform you enjoy best.  But as always, the website has all the information you need.

Next time on the show, I’m bringing you another curve ball, as we’re going to be Making Conversations about Brain Health Count.  I’m bringing you Veronica Gould and her passion for keeping people’s minds active at any age.  Veronica Gould is passionate about us taking up weekly arts-based activities to protect us against brain deterioration and dementia.  It might sound like a gloomy topic, but in actual fact, there’s an awful lot we can do for ourselves.



We don’t want the conversation to stop there!

All of our listeners are important to us, so we would love it if you can connect with Wendy on LinkedIn and send her a message with your favourite episode!


paula senior YMCA

Episode 1 – Paula Senior

In our first episode, we speak to Paula Senior from the YMCA. Paula is a fund-raising officer and is currently preparing for the annual Sleepout to raise much needed funds for the night shelter, how covid has stretched them to the limits and how they have risen above the challenges faced by the homeless.

Nat schooler

Episode 2 – Nat Schooler

Can one conversation really influence where you are driven? Nat Schooler

Influence marketeer Nat Schooler joins Wendy as they chat about how important it is to produce strategic content online. Nat spends his time podcasting, writing, and driving across foreign continents for fun. However, their conversation quickly turns to the importance of building relationships with the people you want to work with. Nat places trust as the highest asset everyone should nurture.

Azam Mamujee M Cubed Tax specialist

Episode 3 – Azam Mamujee

In this episode, Wendy is joined by Managing Partner, Azam Mamujee a tax specialist with a voice of velvet.

Azam agrees that conversations count however he explains how numbers can tell a much more powerful story. He has a catchphrase “Give Azam the facts, I’ll save you the Tax”.

Jenny Procter Marketing for introverts bondfield

Episode 4 – Jenny Procter

Jenny Procter – Bondfield Marketing

Making Conversations about Marketing for Introverts Count

Let us introduce you to Jenny Procter, a marketing consultant and self-proclaimed introvert.

Jenny writes PR and communications for B2B clients and has her own podcast show, and she discusses issues around running her own business as an entrepreneur.

Andrew Deighton team coaching

Episode 5 – Andrew Deighton

Andrew Deighton – Team Coaching. Making Conversations about Teams Count. We are joined by Andrew Deighton today, who helps build and develop high-performing teams through strategy and processes in today’s remote working world.

Wendy has worked with Andrew in a second business through mentoring and knows firsthand how his advice relates to many aspects of running a business.

Nicky Pattinson sales expert public speaker

Episode 6 – Nicky Pattinson

Nicky Pattinson – Leading Sales Authority & Public Speaker. Making Conversations about Personality Count. Nicky Pattinson speaks the Truth in all she does! A northern lass who traded on the markets at the beginning of her career, similarly to your host. Now, Nicky has a best-selling book “Email: Don’t Get Deleted” and her own YouTube channel NICKYPTV.

Buckso Dhillon Wooley

Episode 7 – Buckso Dhillon-Wooley

Buckso Dhillon-Wooley – Actress, Speaker & Business Coach. Making Conversations about Self-Belief Count. A true diamond, Buckso is very much aligned with herself and the many facets of her own personality.
As an actor, speaker and coach her mission in life is to help people connect with their higher self.
Being aligned with yourself on a spiritual, physical and emotional level allows you to shine brighter in everything you touch.
Buckso Dillon-Whooley is a well known Actress, who has starred in Disney’s recent remake of Aladdin and is a long-standing actor on Coronation Street with appearances on many UK TV shows.

James Daniel Copywriter

Episode 8 – James Daniel

James Daniel – Copywriter
Making Conversations about Copywriting Count
Joining us in this episode is copywriter James Daniel.
He describes himself as ‘That old guy who writes copy – you know, the beardy one with glasses.’
We should point out there could be other old guys with beards and glasses out there!
It’s easy to like James’ style of writing because he’s a conversationalist who realizes that people don’t speak geek or tech.

Henny Maltby Digital marketing agency

Episode 9 – Henny Maltby

Henny Maltby – Digital Marketing Agency, Pink Elephant Media. Making Conversations about Digital Marketing Count. When the Pandemic hit in early 2020, Henny Maltby turned to her husband as they both realised their business was going to change forever. Offering online marketing to large corporate businesses who cut budgets left a hole to fill. By opening the conversation up with local businesses, it was obvious what the next chapter would be for them at Pink Elephant Media…

Kim Walsh Phillips

Episode 10 – Kim Walsh Phillips

Kim Walsh Phillips owns Powerful Professionals, a business that helps empower entrepreneurs to turn clicks into cash and identifying the superpowers in others so they can fly high. Kim is an expert in social selling strategy.

Amelia Thorpe Wellbeing coach

Episode 11 – Amelia Thorpe

Amelia Thorpe – Mental Health Wellbeing Coach. Making Conversations about Mental Wealth Count. Meet Amelia Thorpe, founder of Wellbeing 360, who talks to Wendy about how important it is to give equal priority to our mental and physical health. Listening to Amelia’s story will bring a beacon of hope that we can all take charge of our own conversations which will give us back the control that slips sometimes when times are tough. Amelia is a wellbeing counsellor.

John Attridge capacity business

Episode 12 – John Attridge

John Attridge – Guiding Businesses to Reach their Full Potential by Tapping into Spare Capacity

Making Conversations about Capacity Count. John Attridge, owner of BBX turns spare capacity into value for many businesses. When you listen to John you just know there is a bigger story to this guy as his accent gives it away!
John has successfully built a business network and community to help people fill spare capacity and exchange services. It is a brilliant concept and if you’ve not come across it before yet in touch with me and I’ll tell you more. Using the BBX community helped my own business through the lockdown and has provided such a lot of support and new relationships.

Clara Wilcox return to work coaching for parents

Episode 13 – Clara Wilcox

Clara Wilcox runs The Balance Collective, Specialising in Return to Work Coaching for Parents. Making Conversations about Returning to Work Count! This is a conversation that every Mum will resonate with, juggling home and work is not simply a balancing act but a superpower!

Clara recognized through her own personal journey that the right support for Mum’s returning to work was only available from the employer’s point of view. This causes a biased approach and is not always helpful in an emotive decision-making process.

dr ivan misner bni networking

Episode 14 – Dr Ivan Misner

In this episode, Ivan and Wendy explore how conversation is the foundation of all growth and learning. How times have changed, looking back and also predicting our future generations experiences, yet communication will still be the underpin even it how that looks has changed.

Janine Coombes marketing coach

Episode 15 – Janine Coombes

Google has recognised this lady as the #1 marketing coach and her video series mixes humour with key messages, it is the lovely Janine Coombes. Janine is a marketing coach for personal brands.
In this episode, Janine and Wendy share how using the right language influences the conversations we have and how it affects our results.

Lizzie Butler presentations coach

Episode 16 – Lizzie Butler

Making conversations about presentations count! Delighted to introduce Lizzie Butler, owner of LB Communications, who met Wendy at a local online networking event and immediately hit it off. Lizzie helps you to grow your business through personal development training and how to achieve brilliant communication.

Jem hills inspirational speaker

Episode 17 – Jem Hills

Making conversations about Bullying count. Jem Hills is an inspirational speaker, trainer & performance coach.
Talking to Wendy in this episode is ex-marine Jem Hills who you might find it hard to believe was affected by bullying and a lack of confidence. As a release Jem discovered Northern dancing and practiced as a bedroom activity that later led to an accidental release of freestyle dancing at a competition. The dancing-built resilience and the foundations for the training to complete the Mud Run and onto his Elite Special Forces career.

Peter howard graphic design

Episode 18 – Peter Howard

Peter Howard runs a design studio that is ranked in the top 100 in the country and was responsible for the WAG brand. Having known Peter and his team for many years, Wendy has heard lots of his stories but knew there would be one she had not heard before.

Taz Thornton & Asha Clearwater business coaches

Episode 19 – Taz Thornton & Asha Clearwater

Making conversations about partnerships count. In a Making Conversations Count first, we are joined by two dynamic guests in this episode. Both Taz & Asha provide business coach services in different areas. Joining Wendy chatting about all the elements that make up a great debate. You are not going to want to miss the observations with Taz Thornton and Asha Clearwater around questioning, opinions, debate and discernment that makes for wonderful colourful conversations.

Vicki Carroll O'Neill

Episode 20 – Vicki Carroll (formerly O’Neill)

Vicki works with entrepreneurs, small business owners and executive leaders who are stuck in their business and need someone as a partner to coach them to their next level of success. Vicki offers growth marketing consultant advice, strategy plans & also organises in-house marketing teams.

heidi medina business coach

Episode 21 – Heidi Medina

This episode contains one of our most important conversations, so we’re definitely going to make it count!
Wendy Harris brings Heidi Medina into the conversation today, who opens up the conversation about abuse she has encountered.
She’s a Linkedin expert and business coach who is the exact opposite of the classic ‘my way or the highway’.
Whether you meet Heidi online or in person she is the same.

Niraj Kapur online sales coach

Episode 22 – Niraj Kapur

In this episode, Wendy is joined by Online Sales Coach Niraj Kapur from “Everybody works in Sales” a business that helps companies with their sales processes.

Steve Judge paralympian motivational speaking

Episode 23 – Steve Judge

A life-changing accident that almost claimed a life but actually birthed a mindset shift.  Making conversations about speaking count!

Imagine losing your limbs in an accident.

That’s a real human test.

Most people would fall into one of two camps.

Feel the loss, and struggle to overcome it, before essentially accepting your ‘job lot’ and just becoming a bit angry.

Many would. And they’d be forgiven.

Then there are others, who would not let it defeat them, or define them.

Steve Judge is definitely in the latter of the two camps.

Nikolas Venios the ideas agency

Episode 24 – Nik Venios

We reflect on how this business man helped his poorly mother solve a household challenge which led to a career of making conversations about ideas and innovation count. We will all eventually lose our parents. Sadly, it’s a part of life. Not many of us have to suffer that loss at the tender age of just six. We couldn’t think of a nicer guy to help us with our goal of making conversations about ideas count. Truly, if anyone can hold a conversation about ideas, it’s Nik Venios of the Ideas Agency. Did you know that NASA has a genius test? During this episode, you’ll find out all about this, and the fascinating stats surrounding it.

Jonny cooper hates marketing

Episode 25 – Jonny Cooper

Most business owners hate marketing. That’s probably because they don’t understand it. Someone who does get marketing is Jonny Cooper, and even he can’t stand it! In fact, he despises it so much, he built a business around it. Welcome to Jonny Hates Marketing! This week we’re making conversations about messaging count. Messaging is so important to get correct. Your entire marketing voice depends on it. That’s why you need to listen very carefully to Jonny Cooper.

Wendy Harris telephone trainer how to sell over the phone

Episode 26 – Wendy Harris

Wendy Harris is an expert telemarketer, who has years worth of experience in cold-calling and doing it right. Now a podcast host, Wendy shares her story and how she became an advocate for making conversations count!

Will Polston Make it happen

Episode 27 – Will Polston

Making conversations about wealth….and Clubhouse….count! Paying it forward. Acting from a position of generosity and giving within the law of reciprocity. We’re talking to Will Polston.

Ray Blakney Live Lingua

Episode 28 – Ray Blakney

Making conversations about language count… Ray Blakney is the CEO And founder of online language school Live Lingua. Can you speak another language other than your native tongue? Wendy admitted to the “Making Conversations Count” team that she doesn’t, and we can’t help but feel she’s definitely not alone.

Many Ward write my book cuddle monster

Episode 29 – Mandy Ward

Mandy Ward is a book mentor, helping people to write their own books under the company ‘Write my book’. Mandy is also an author herself, including the popular children’s book ‘The Cuddle Monster’.

Sarah Townsend copywriter survival skills for freelancers

Episode 30 – Sarah Townsend

Sarah Townsend is a freelance copywriter and best-selling author of the book ‘survival skills for freelancers’. In this episode, we discuss the importance of conversations in the freelance world, and how things can lead to many opportunities…

Paul Furlong visual branding advertiser videographer

Episode 31 – Paul Furlong

Paul Furlong is part of Opus Media, producing TV advertising, videos, and photographs for businesses. He knows a thing or two about visual branding, and is considered a advertising guru!

Masami Sato founder B1G1

Episode 32 – Masami Sato

Masami Sato set up the B1G1 initiative. Helping businesses to do good by giving back. When was the last time you gave, freely Not for tax reasons. And not because you felt awkward at a raffle. We could all always do more.

Ann Hobbs Forward thinking publishing

Episode 33 – Ann Hobbs

Ann Hobbs helps people to self-publish their books with Forward Thinking Publishing. She is also a coach and author of her book ‘Kick ass your life’, helping people to push through adversity.

Kim-Adele Platts Career development coach

Episode 34 – Kim-Adele Platts

Kim-Adele Platts, Career Development Coach. Making Conversations about Leadership Count! If you don’t believe in yourself how do you expect others to? This was a question and topic that surfaced during this powerful and insightful conversation with Kim-Adele Platts.

Marina Hauer branding specialist for coaches

Episode 35 – Marina Hauer

Marina Hauer is a branding specialist for independent coaches. Are you using three different brand ‘voices’ in your marketing efforts? We’re making conversations about branding count!

David Smith MBE paralympian

Episode 36 – David Smith

David Smith MBE is a Paralympian in the sport Boccia. Do you know what Boccia is? David tells you in this episode all about the most inclusive Paralympian sport that helps people with their independence.

Graham Nash accountant

Episode 37 – Graham Nash

Graham Nash, BusinessWise Accountants, has worked in many fields over the years and the one common denominator has been helping business turnaround.

Ian Genius sales coach

Episode 38 – Ian Genius

Ian Genius is the sales coach to help you gain confidence in sales. His Ingenious technique helps clients see the value of your best package to COMMAND a higher price.

Jennie Erikson voice over artist

Episode 39 – Jennie Eriksen

Jennie Eriksen is a voice over artist, her company name is Lovely Voice. She helps her intended listener to learn by being able to bring characters to life.

Stella Da Silva employability trainer

Episode 40 – Stella Da Silva

Stella Da Silva talks about vocations in this episode, as a specialist employability trainer she shares her insider knowledge.
What skills do you need to be employable?

Hypnotist Jonathan Chase

Episode 41 – Jonathan Chase

Look into my eyes! You will feel very sleepy! You guessed it, we’re having one of our many conversations that count with hypnosis star Jonathan Chase.

Brynne Tillman social sales link

Episode 42 – Brynne Tillman

Brynne Tillman is a social selling expert. Her company ‘Social Sales Link’ teaches the importance of connection for selling on LinkedIn and other platforms.

Ruth Driscoll

Episode 43 – Ruth Driscoll

Ruth Driscoll supports people through toxic relationships. Her company the ‘life liberator’ takes her personal experiences to help others.

Rob Begg mindset coach

Episode 44 – Rob Begg

Rob Begg is a results based mindset coach to business leaders & teams. In this episode, he talks about your ego and self-limiting beliefs many of us hold.

Dan Knowlton video advertising

Episode 45 – Dan Knowlton

Dan Knowlton and his brother Lloyd run Knowlton – a social media and video advertising company who create unique, funny content to stop the scroll.

Sudhir Kumar

Episode 46 – Sudhir Kumar

Sudhir Kumar is an expert in social selling to grow your business, he’s written a book ‘Being Human: Marketing & Social Selling in a Digital World’.

Episode 47 – Ann Page

Ann Page is a lawyer who helps other lawyers with her courses. She teaches valuable business skills and teaches the importance of avoiding jargon.

Joe Chatham networking

Episode 48 – Joe Chatham

Joe Chatham set up USA 500. It’s an exclusive member-based organization focusing on sharing his expertise in marketing relationships and networking.

Larry Long Jnr

Episode 49 – Larry Long Jnr

Larry Long Jnr is a sales coach that helps give people, teams, and organizations the motivation to go from good to great.

pete cann laughter man

Episode 50 – Pete Cann

Larry Long Jnr is a sales coach that helps give people, teams, and organizations the motivation to go from good to great.

Hear what people are saying about the show

I love this podcast. The guests you have on all bring something new to the conversation and definitely thought-provoking.

Sometimes this means I change something I do, or something I would say, and other times it’s a real opportunity for reflection.

Thanks for sharing your guests with us Wendy, the podcasts are brilliant.

Paula Senior

I always enjoy listening to Wendy’s Making Conversations Count podcast and admire her talent for drawing out people’s stories and getting to the heart of things for finding out what makes them tick.

We all have pivotal moments and Wendy manages to find the right parts, showcasing the reasons why someone is who they are.

It’s those details that we connect to and come to more understanding of why people do what they do.

Heidi Medina

Love this podcast series. It’s a great idea to have a theme of ‘pivotal conversations’ and the variety of guests from massively different backgrounds keeps it fresh and interesting.

Wendy is a natural host and makes people feel at ease to share their stories.

Andrew Deighton

If you never want to miss an episode, subscribe to our newsletter.

For weekly email reminders, sneak-peeks of the best bits before anyone else & useful resources.
Sign me up